I have made an observation about myself that I don’t quite understand. I have cut two important women out of my life. The first one is momster, who made my childhood a living hell and who is directly responsible for numerous abusers having access to me. Why I would want to cut her out of my life seems pretty obvious.
The second woman I have cut out of my life is the friend I blogged about here. She was a good friend for the most part for nine years, and she was there for me during the early years of healing. In fact, she was the first person I had the courage to embrace deep in my heart as a friend. That friendship ended because I outgrew her. I needed to “stay sick” for the friendship to work. I couldn’t stay “sick,” and she could not endure me “well,” so that friendship is over.
The friend brought much more of value to my life, but I have absolutely no desire to have any contact with her. I wouldn’t even consider sending her a Christmas card, not because I wish her ill but because I think it would be cruel to send her mixed messages. I am out of that friendship and don’t want back in. That bond is severed. Period.
Then, we have momster, who brought very little good to my life and mountains of pain, and I felt compelled to send her a Christmas card?? Why??
Why is it so clear that the friend needs to be removed from my life 100% but that momster does not? Why is it so easy to see that sending the friend mixed messages would be cruel, but I view the same act as a kindness if I do it to momster?
I truly don’t understand this about myself. Am I being influenced by society, which says that a mother’s love is forever? Am I feeling “guilted” into this by my religion? Is there a part of myself who still holds out hope that momster will change? (I truly do not think this is even possible.)
Why do I still feel a pull toward momster but not toward the friend when the friend was better for me than momster ever was?
Photo credit: Hekatekris
Blooming Lotus 
If anyone else in my life had treated me the way my mother has over the years, they would be out of my life. She is not evil but she is manipulative and selfish.
But because she is my mother I feel some sort of weird obligation to let her into my life and to some degree our relationship is very different now I live so far away from her and that I have started learning about enforcing of boundaries
So I think in light of the fact of what momster did to you, you’ve taken brilliant steps in cutting contact as much as humanely possible but I guess to some degree there is still that feeling of being obliged to keep some form of contact. Maybe it’s from the bonding that happens between mother and child in the first two to three years of life when our neural pathways are being formed.
Whatever the reason, you obviously did not have that little hook where your friend was concerned, maybe because you were always on an equal footing?
Just pondering here…
Man, those obligations are like emotional chains huh? It is so weird how we’ll keep patterns with people from our past out of obligation, when we know that these obligations bring us such pain and little else in return. I totally agree with the minimal contact approach taken. Regarding the pondering, I think research would prove you right. We seemed to be hard wired in those first few years with that provider of care.
I have been pondering the same exact thing! I just wrote a feelings letter to a member of my family. The family member was being hard on me – calling me crazy & a trouble maker -so I waited a while. Then responded with as much love and caring that I could muster under the circumstances. I basically said, my experience was different than their experience and reminded them that they didn’t want to know about the situation in the first place -so they really shouldn’t judge. I was proud of my letter. I felt I handled the slanderer with maturity. I said a prayer and did a spell check. Lol. Then I typed “If you want to get together, we can”. Then I quickly clicked enter/send. O M Gosh. Where does that sentiment come from? I def. don’t want to get together w/this person. So, why in the world did I type that? So, believe me, I understand your bewilderment!
Sadly, it is a certain hope you must abandon in order to heal. The hope momster could have been different, and that she could still change. She can’t. Someone who does what she did to you is a sociopath and incapable of love.
I totally agree with this comment,
Some people don’t have a clue about their impact on others, and so why would they change? They don’t define, or see, themselves as the part of the problem. You, though, have the privilege of owning the solution to this, and it sounds like you are doing what you need to do to take care of yourself emotionally and spiritually. Acknowledging that she’ll never be who you need her to be is a painful process, but it may be easier than getting your hopes up over and over and over.
Blood is thicker than water? (Sorry for the bad idiom, couldn’t help it.) I cut my “mom” off as well and that first year of no contact was very odd and I did feel guilty. Somewhere deep within I long for the mother I never had and I think it takes awhile to fully accept that she will never be capable of a true, loving and healthy relationship. It is ia hard thing to give up on hope. Hope is what keeps us moving forward after all. I have always felt that it’d have been easier for me emotionally if my parents had both died when I was a child than to have done the things they have done.
Hugs.
Faith-
I’m finding your blog troublesome because I have to make that decision myself. Our circumstances are different but I know with my upbring religion was top priority over anything plus we were never allow to speak ill of anyone or hang our dirty laundry. My father instilled that in us by threats. He kept telling us the proper ways to act and not act. What to say and not say. There are certain obligations in the family that you will do, like it or not. He’s such a jerk.
Religion is a funny thing. People worship so many different things. I have been outsed (kind of) from the family because my views are different now that I’m an adult. Nobody will say that directly to me but it’s pretty obvious and that’s fine. But we all want to feel like were and have been part of a family or loved by them may it be parents or other family members. Belonging is an important need we all have.
We don’t want to give that up for anything even thou that relationship is toxic. In a weird way it’s kind of comforting. I like the fact that I have a mother even thou she did terrible things to me. My husband lost his mother at age 8 in a car accident. I can’t image having that loss. Even thou I actually never had a mother she was never there for me physically or emotionally. But just knowing she is alive brings a kind of comfort to me. The hope or comfort that she’ll change. I don’t want to give that false comfort up, even thou I should or should I say need to.
Society does say that parents (family) are forever. Nobody is ever closer than family. Family will always be there for you, are all things my parents has drilled into us kids. You can’t divorce your family my dad says. Well you know if they are toxic to me then yes, I have too. I say that because I have to hear myself say that. It’s been a year now since I have spoken to my father. It’s been painful and hard to manage but with the love of my husband and son, it’s been tolerable. My husband keeps reminding me of the things he’s done when I feel down and when to contact him. Yes it’s been beneficial to me to not speak to him. As of now I’m so glad I did stop all contact with him. I’m actually a calmer and happier person even thou I have so much more work to do in my recovery.
My mother is a different story even thou she is much worse. I can only handle one parent at a time. I feel mom’s/daughter internally have a bond that’s hard to break. I’ve been trying. If you find a way let me know. It’s tough.
I don’t know if that helps at all but I appreciate you bring this subject up. I love your openess and honesty you share. It helps me see and bring faith back in people that I have lost in life. It’s such a slow process. I have stayed hidden my whole life. It’s scary to open up especially to people you don’t know. Thank you for it. It’s rewarding.
Thumper
Faith,
I, too, have observed this about myself and also find myself dumbfounded.
For me, it’s with my father. There is this inner turmoil if I should send him a card, accept his gifts, go to lunch with him as he has asked me to (and bring along my daughter). Why is it so hard for me to completely cut him out of my life, knowing all of the horribly wrong things he did to me for years on end, when I can cut other people out so easily over things much less harmful than what he has done?
It baffles me as well, but I think that it is part of the complexity of what sexual abuse does to a child in the long-run. I feel as though I have been mind-f***d and there are some things that I feel/do/how I am that I just do not (and maybe even will never?) understand.
Hi Faith:
I consider myself an atheist but I found this website when I found out one of the perpertrators who hurt me had died. It was the female parent’s mother. Ironically I was always clear about her level of toxicity and I clearly hated her. Growing up the feelings about the female parent swayed from ‘love” to hate. The love was clearly based in fear. The link below has a whole list of bible based versus on destructive, toxic relationships how it wasn’t God’s intention for folks to put it with (I’m paraphrasing) other people’s bullshit. Especially bullshit from people who are unwilling/unable to change.
http://www.luke173ministries.org/
Hope it helps.
Thanks.
Toni
“I wouldn’t even consider sending her a Christmas card, not because I wish her ill but because I think it would be cruel to send her mixed messages.”
Maybe this sentence alone explains WHY you sent your mother a Christmas card! You didn’t want to be cruel to your former friend, but you don’t feel the same way about your mother!
This was my first reaction too, Faith, but of course there could be a billion other more unconscious explanation.
I still send my child abuser a card (along with his wife, my maternal aunt), but it’s much more cynical and clear-cut in my case. My mother (ostensibly unaware of her brother-in-law’s actions towards me) has a close relationship with her family. I send my aunt and uncle a Christmas card because I simply could not be arsed with their whinging – via my poor middleman mother – if I didn’t.
A packet 20 flimsy cards here costs at most £2, so I’m not terribly worried about spending money on him 😉
i think that when i went through a similar thought process that alot of me really still wanted that parent to be the sort society expects. I really wanted a kind loving relationship so i had a confusing time with the reality, i hope it gets easier for you x
I actually think the explanation is far more heartening than you realise love. It shows that there is indeed a bond between you and momster, as there should narurally be: its our nature and parental attachment is how our species has evolved t( survive.
But more than this, it shows that the inner core of yourself has not been touched by your mothers complicity, since in effect, by letting her in, you are demonstrating yoyr capacity to overcome the greatest anger, betrayal, and fear DESPITE all she has done. And this shows how awesome you are as a person. Friendships are bonds that we choose: and bonds we can disolve if necessary.
That said, the ability you have for trusting your mother should not compel you to let her too close. Be very careful with yoyrself. But be comforted that there is an important bit of yourself that hasn’t been ruined by your abusers.
Although I am not cutting my family our of my life I am abandoning the scapegoat role so I no longer have my assigned place in the family. It is the dynamic that they will abandon me for abandoning my role. Likely assuming that I will change my mind.,
I always hear about family gatherings right before they happen and after the plans are made. I was very clear this year I wanted to know what everyone was doing for Christmas as soon as they did. I made the decision to make my decision about what I was going to do with thought. Once I was e-mailed what was going on I clearly wrote back that I would let them know. I got a call from my mother who had “unread” my e-mail and assumed I would be attending within the limited options allowed for me. I got a e-mail from my sister pretty much saying she would allow me to see her for Christmas and I could even name the place. I could tell my mother was upset that it was no longer a given that I would attend what ever scrap was given me. I do not believe it was hurt that I would not be there just the whole family is in turmoil right now. Pretty much the delusion is crumbling and they are having to regroup. It is not just my decisions that is causing this. It is weak so it is crumbling.
I was pretty well out there and called a friend to go to the pool and met other friends there. I gave them marbles and they gave me fudge. It was nice. As I was leaving the pool I almost could not. I was so weak I did not think I could move. I thought for a moment of asking someone to help me.
I understood that my physical reaction was from so not wanting to disappoint anyone especially my mother. I went over the conversation and knew that she had already regrouped and now would likely be directing anger at me she will lay in wait for an opening.
On they way home there was turmoil. What if we are wrong? What if these people who really can not express themselves are reaching out and I am missing it. Extreme turmoil. As others have expressed here it was the hope springs eternal. It hurt a lot. My heart broke again. Breaking hearts are part of life just so you know.
As a multiple some of us have to be quiet and this goes beyond saying words out loud when others of us are doing hard work. We have to let them consider what things mean to them. That some of us have come to peace with something does not mean we all have. We way do not jump to we think we know what conclusion they will come to and need to be open their understanding with change how some of the others of us feels about something. It is hard work.
We went through the what if we are wrong and it came to for all of us we do not wish to be treated the way my family treats us. The reason is it is wrong.
————-
It is hard in blogland as with out a face I can not remember where the gifts came from. I did not discover the scapegoat concept myself, I did not get the concept that if my boundaries are not honored they are still my boundaries, I found out that cults and MKULTRA exist from blogland and that I was not alone in my experiences and that my and everyone’s experiences are unique. I did not come to that mean people will wait for an opening on my own.
So a thank you! to those in blogland. I do not do family work with my therapist. It is a matter of triage not that she could not help.
I have not abandoned hope mine does spring eternal. I see these holidays which are in turmoil as a way to something different and better I just do not know what it is yet.
Well, she is your mother. Good or bad.
You said a few times that she did express love to you although it was only at certain times.
Maybe it’s because you are a mom yourself now. That conjures up a lot of stuff for us.
Maybe because it’s Christmas?
?????? It’s a mystery.
Being far too rational sometimes but to me it’s because you can clearly see the lines which your friend has drawn. Momster on the other hand bobs and weaves and has been a force in your life from conception. Her lines are entangled throughout who you are and what you’re dealing with.
Once you disentangle more I’ll be you’ll find yourself having a different response to your action or taking different action.
Lots of good ideas above. Perhaps it’s partly because society teaches us that once you have genetics in common with someone you are connected to them forever, because it’s a physical connection. I say: balls. If someone betrays you badly enough, they can become nothing to do with you. In my case, I feel that a member of my family who has raped me is just a rapist and nothing else; that is the sum of their identity. It’s a mirror of what the experience does to the victim, the way what was done engulfed me and became everything, I now turn that around and say that it is a part of who I am, but the whole of who they are. How do they like them apples? Heh.
None of that’s new to anyone here, I expect, but this societal idea of a physical unchangable connection feels quite strong to me. I feel better treating things like genetic predispositions to certain illnesses as coincidences rather than evidence of a genetic connection, however unscientific that may be.
Friends are like seasons, they come and go, changing when it is time to move on. When you move on you are opening yourself up for another “good, healthy, positive” friend to come in. Or one that matches what you need in your life at that moment. As far as a mother, mine use to tell me at a later age (in my 20s) she just wanted to be a friend, not a mom. It took years of my own turmoil to try to understand what she meant until one day I asked. She viewed our relationship as grown now. Me no longer needing her to provide what I needed when I was little. Now she and I could enjoy a new phase in life, enjoy one another, instead of a dependent relationship. Maybe being able to find a way to have a different kind of meaning to a momster/daughter relationship will help you. It’s not about how she will feel. It is about what makes you feel better or good. Keep your head up!!
This is an important subject and very important to my emotions and thoughts. I have just recently cut from my father(2 months ago) and mother (8 months ago). They are not sexual abusers, more emotional and physical abusers who also helped in my pain by refusing to accept it was happening and did the same to my wife. I was stupid enough to let them treat me with paingiving, I will not let anyone hurt my wife( they knew some of her pain, and began to give her serious pain with it!!). My wife has written letters of exposure, confrontation and cutting off to all her abusers and the people who stood by watching or ignoring. A cult pedo ring was involved and we knew there was dangers for us physically but I knew my wife’s mother was the link to the ring so she was in the most danger and we did not care for her safety (we were safe here due to fact that we have powerful dangerous people who are protecting us and my warriorness is very well developed). All this over last year or less has got me thinking alot about this subject. And with xmas atm I’ve found the increase in ‘attacks’ from ‘loved’ ones is very high.
One think that is programmed very strongly into every culture of the world is ‘Honour thy father and mother’. I say only if they honour me!! Paingivers do not get my honour, love or integrity. But saying this I also recognise from a pyschological point of view that we as individuals have a built-in mechanism to have ‘need’ , ‘love’ toward the beings who brought us here and ‘looks’ after us until we can. However when parents do not care, support, love you healthily (just because they do not know love and how to express it healthily, they should not give pain and suffering), a difficulity arises within due to this pyschological confusion. I say no matter who they are if they give pain and attack the Love and Goodness within a person then they are attacking the God within and no one who does that gets any honour. love or respect from me. They are not only attcking me but they attcking my God within. Seriously, I would not what to be them when justice comes, but I can not wait for my justice, I know it will be very good for my soul.
And as you’ve said Faith here (you answered most of your questions within you’re blog) xmas and ‘festive seasons’ always makes these things harder. Culturally we have been programmed to spend lots of money to ‘show’, ‘express’ our love. People get into an emotional and mental frenzy. We participate and we get ‘bombarded’. All making this subject more confusing again.
Now add the quatum physic belief that everything has morphic fields that interact with each other, influencing and guiding each other (we’ve often heard them being called auras). They interlock within fields of influence and science proves that these individual fields will be connected to other fields. Family, friends, social groups, nature, even the universes all interact depending their ‘connection’ to the other. The internet is a good example of fields interacting and influence. My belief is it is very important to cut these ties of morphic fields from Paingivers and paingivers. And one way to this is by knowing thyself and bit by bit this will happen. I’d advise also to spiritually cut this ‘ties’ and there are a few techniques to achieve this and using imagery is a good one (but must be ready for this part before attempting). An important point is that the Paingivers know this science and they use the paingivers (our parents and bad friends) to continue this ‘influence’.
The following also is my belief and certainly should not be taken as gospel.
In some Gnostic beliefs , before the ‘fall’ we had the understanding of Soul physchology and people\angels in ‘responsiblity’ levels knew this. Some people at the time used this understanding to help guide us to grow and to be our full potential. However there was a group who then believed sexuality and sensuality should be hidden and controlled (from their paingiving guilt) and chose to ‘guide’ the human race with their altered Soul physcological science and thus paingivng was born and here we are now, in the darkest time in recorded and non-recorded history, but just aroud the corner of the final victory.
PS-I could talk about these subjects for weeks but I’ve gotten a bit carried away already soz 🙂
perhaps it may have something to do with a need to maintain a faint connection in hopes of finding more answers to your past…..at least that is what it seems to be for me with my parents.
I am cut off from them mostly, but I seem to keep the smallest connection possible just in case they choose to acknowledge and/or disclose our history.
just a thought.
Annie
I am struck by the strong opinions in the post and comment. Perhaps the base is the strong feelings?
I went a different way in looking at this for a while. Why and how in the world would that abusers want contact?
There was one psychopath who was the contact between my father and the MKULTRA program and hence the cults. He was a superintendent in the public school system.
He actually came to my high school graduation. He drove by I saw him and he pulled over on the side of the street as I was walking toward my graduation. I ran at him. I do not know what I would have done. I do know I was going to drag him our of that car and throw him around to start. There was zero fear.
What in the world made him show up? I had seen him in his car through out the years. He was stalking me pretty much. I would stand an stare at him. The IceMan apparent in my posture. (I am just remembering this now.) I was waiting for him to stop. I made the decision not to hunt him down. Not fear I do not have the heart of a killer.
Some say you can not or should not try to get into the head of the abusers. I did not give up my human desire to understand just because I have experienced trauma. Nor did I give up my right to judge people. That I can not know what it is like to be them or really understand I can predict their behavior based on past experience. I did not give up my right to be wrong.
I am starting o look at expert opinion as telling me what not to do as them telling me I should not do what they and everyone else does. A classic is anger management. Pretty much that is all about telling me that I should not express my anger. When told to express my anger it seems how they tell me to express is for a different level of anger. One they have no reason to have.
Just a few thoughts.
The friendship thing happened with me, too. It ended about 3 years ago, just as I began moving forward after my divorce. I like the way you explained it: … she could not endure me well… That is exactly how to put it for my friend and I. I couldnt stay in need of her “mothering” and she didnt like me being strong and determined. I like me now, havent talked to her in the whole 3 years.
From the limited amount that I have learned in this journey, there is a “trauma bond” that exists between victim and perpetrator. During the abuse you were not given the choice to walk away from it. That is the difference between your momster and your friend. You did have a choice on whether or not to walk away from it.
And thanks for sharing this. I am feeling so overwhelmed and sad today (Christmas Eve). I’m nowhere near my family (gratefully) and yet I feel a longing to be with them. It’s truly sick. : (
I wonder if it is more about who you tell yourself you are then who your momster is or was to you. As with your friend, who you decided to stop relating to, you ARE clear about the relationship, and clear that momster is crazy, manipulative, etc, etc, and will not be changing. Giving her a card may seem to you a mixed message but from her perspective, she hears nothing except what she wants to hear so the message is the same no matter what you do. Some might say momster is still in power-play mode, and you giving her a card plays into her hand. BUT, if you are clear that that is what is going on, giving her a card becomes a coping strategy, a way to play into the game fully knowing it is a game. Momster thinks she’s winning, and you just laugh. I say all this because I am in the midst of being a “helper” of my mother, after 24 years of estrangement. She is the same as she was, in deep denial, and playing forgetful, helpless, narcissistic self. I know that nothing I say or do will shock her out of her denial, nor get her to give up the games she is programmed to play. I could just turn around and walk out of her life and not feel bad about it. But for me it comes down to it not being about who she was or is, but who I want to be. I want to show mercy and kindness because that is who I want to be. And I want to play the part of the good daughter, because of how I define me, not how she defines it. Someday it won’t be important for me to define myself that way, and I’ll stop. Feeling a little zen here