On my blog entry entitled Feeling Off , a reader posted the following comment:
why do some parts (2 in particular very scared of). .want to and do harm other parts within. Rape. Beat. I see this. I hear it. Someone said it sounds as if they are introject parts. Could you do blog on this? How do i change this within? It is terrifying. ~ Malanie
I have not heard the term introject parts before for people with dissociative identity disorder (DID), but I understand the concept. In the book Safe Passage to Healing, Chrystine Oksana labels these parts as persecutor parts, so I have always used her terminology for this. I have written on this topic before, which you can read here. Be sure to read the excerpt provided in that blog entry from Safe Passage to Healing so you know that this isn’t only my opinion.
I, too, had persecutor parts, and they were terrifying. They seemed to interfere with my healing process, and it was all internalized. Really, how do you explain that one alter part is “beating up” another alter part? If you have experienced this, it makes perfect sense, but it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to someone who does not know what it is like to have alter parts.
Safe Passage to Healing helped me with this, and I strongly recommend this book to anyone who endured ritual abuse and/or has alter parts. (The book specifically addresses DID, but I would be very interested to hear from those who are multiple without DID as to whether this resource is helpful.) While I was frightened of my persecutor parts, I chose to believe that each alter part is a part of me, which means that every part is “good,” no matter how frightening. In the beginning, this belief was based on sheer faith, relying on Chrystine Oksana to know what she was talking about because I really did not have any other resources specifically on persecutor parts to guide me through this.
If I came from a place of seeing all persecutor parts as “good,” no matter how badly they were acting, I could apply the same principles that I had been using for healing my other parts. Tomorrow, I will share the approach that worked best for me.
Image credit: Amazon.com
Blooming Lotus 
Listening. Reading. Struggling.
Thankyou faith.
This is everything all of it so impossibly hard. And yes so hard to try to explain to anyone. It is scary and isolating at times. Scary most of the time. You say im strong. I feel so not strong.
Thankyou for writing this. For everything.
Malanie
thank you for writing on this topic! it’s so embarrassing to talk about alters’ lives on the inside, where they can hurt other parts, or even have romances with each other. it’s soooooo odd, and i’m glad to read your thoughts on the subject. people who are not multiple must find us so very odd to have these issues.
I think we re-enact what we were shown as children. Adults who are not nice but all twisted up, infect us with their dysfunctional toxicity.
Multiple without DID?
Hi, Blue.
Some of my reader tells me that they are multiple but not DID. They have no host personality and do not dissociate. I wouldn’t do it justice to continue further since I do not have this condition and cannot describe it well. Perhaps one of them will jump in to explain further. :0)
~ Faith
I am beginning to think that these 2 parts are based on real people who were a part of ritual abuse at someones hands/group. Still details so frigging unclear. I dont want to believe such autrocitities.
Is it possible for the crazy evil people i encountered ( that i still fight believing) to “create” the 2 parts within to ensure the abuse continues in my mind?
Or did *i* bring them into my mind inside?
-*-
Currently horrible struggle with one 13yr okd reliving over and over a specufic ordeal. I hear it see it she talks of it writes t and i am unaware
i sound crazy. It sounds crazy to me.
Living this way in tge midst of so much internal is exhausting. I hate this.
Hi, Malanie.
Per “Safe Passage to Healing,” only a child can split off an alter part, and its purpose is always to protect the child (which is why I believe that all parts are “good.”) The abusers then manipulate the part to believe that it can best protect the child through internal persecution. In my case, my parts became persecutor parts to protect my sister. If I ever told, they believed that my sister would be killed, so they would “attack” internal parts to make sure they did not tell. Ultimately, my persecutor parts were doing the wrong thing for the right reasons.
~ Faith
I thought multiple and DID were the same thing???
Hi, heavenlyplaces.
So did I until having some readers who are multiple but not DID tell me otherwise. Hopefully, some of them will explain. :0)
~ Faith
I don’t concern myself with labels. Leave that ‘stuff’ to the ever-growing DMVs.
Melanie, you don’t sound crazy to me. You sound like you are having a sane response to an insane experience that was put upon you. Your brain is acting in a healthy survival way to cope with something that was totally inappropriate behaviour, foisted upon you. Denial is a strong coping mechanism. Facing the Fear of the truth of it, is empowering ultimately.
We endure as splinters perhaps. But consider all the children>adults who never made it through alive. We have battle scars but WE DO HAVE LIFE. The more compassion I give my dark places/voices the younger they become and more helpful and add to my energy instead of attacking me.
Compassion to all parts allows us to grow in an environment of acceptance and love.
We have ghosts of the past. They are mirrors of the abuse and not the actual abuser. We are innocent and beautiful in how we adapted.
Sending Deeep Respect and Compassion to all here.
Facing the Fear of the Reality of it – is powerful in its ability to free us from the bind.
I have a flu. I could be rambling haahhaa haaa PEACE
I am addressing the concept of DID and multiplicity being different, It is my opinion. I only write in case the concept of DID does not fit someone who reads this. It does not effect me personally anymore. This is not a worse than thing it is a different thing.
First MPD was not changed to DID. MPD ceased to exist as far as the mental health field was concerned. There are more people with the Dx of DID than there ever were with MPD. The reason is it is a different DX.
Dissociation is not related in any meaningful way to my experience. I do not have a host rather there are many. I did not have a core it never had any chance to develop due to the environment my body was in. I always knew I was a multiple I did not know everyone else was not.
I am not saying that DID does not exist. I am saying that MPD does exist and it is not DID. It does not fit. The groups of us are have more in common with singletons that those with DID.
I heal with complex psychoanalysis and complex expressive therapy. I do most of the work alone in the context of my therapeutic relationship. My therapist is well educated in the understanding of DID and treats people with DID. All my therapy is un-directed. I often write if you therapist knows more about what you experience and why than you are not a multiple.
We all express as who we are be it as an individual or groups. To do this we need to be separate as we are. Much of it is to be as non-present as we can stand.
Over the years we have come to know it is much about sleep. If I sleep now than I did not before it is a different experience. We do not all sleep at the same time. Most of our lives one of us was awake at all times, this is a brain thing. It is so much about grieving. Being so sad you do not think you can survive.
We really care little what is observed and learned by the experts by observing teaching other experts. We only worry about what is experienced. We care and learn much when people tell of there experience with out the terms of the observers/experts.
What causes the difference between DID and MPD is unknown. I expect it is being close to death often, sensory deprivation to the max, malnutrition, temperature extremes as a way of life and perhaps most importantly murder of loved ones all before speech in connected paragraphs. No one really has the data to know.
It is very important that I do not see this as a worse than thing. There is no scale of trauma it is to complex. Even with a singleton it is complex and it is foolish to believe that even a singleton would have the same reaction one day as then next.
_____________
I am now addressing the concept of introjects. There is a concept that a child knows what their parents expect due to an introject. The child experiencing the parent being there even when they are not. This was adapted to those who have experienced trauma as the introject is abusive and takes over the body. Somehow this is supposedly related to the same process as a person who is engrossed in a book. (dissociation) No child I know is aware of what there parents expect by experiencing the parent being there. It is do simplistic to be meaningful with any child I know.
Some of us express what we saw happen to others. It was terrifying. Just as it was then. Once we learned not to freak out and see it as a danger it became much easier.
As an example. One once put a brown extension cord around our neck. They were frantic to try and express what we saw happen so someone else. That time we freaked and we have sometime to go back to what they saw. Once we all let others express it works itself out. It is still hard, by being all caught up in the danger it was impossible which frustrated those that needed to express.
We never call each other names which to us is what being called a introject would be. We go with our expression. Often the one that goes with that person or the ones that are from the cellar that sort of thing. Some times it is those that are right eyed dominant, left handed and most recently left foot dominant. Some have names some do not.
We are all of equal importance and non of us exists for no reason.
Michael, your insights are always interesting. They broaden me to understand myself and distant inklings, i have especially what has been seen by my right eye or the left or where they sit above me to my right or left or behind left.
What amazes me is that am 46 and still constantly night after night dream that I am living with my mother as a youngster ( she my primary abuser with her ‘friends’ ) I have worlds within worlds within my dream scape. Layers and Layers and have to remind myself that it is not a real world only dreams. I have kind of lucid dreams where I think I can control things change things. I have places that I think are real but upon wakening I have to remind myself these things are not real and the previous dreams that are built upon it, are also an illusion.
I need to get a LIfe perhaps !!
Maybe I am not explaining it well. I have about 4 places where I live in my dreams. I visit and believe in them and the experiences multiply but are not real. I am lucky enough to have my own home and live with no one which makes me happy. I am safe here in my home, so why does that she-dog
( primary abuser ) still enter my dreams??
Prism,
For me it is about not reminding myself that some of my dreams which are not dreams rather an ability that most people do not have, are not aware they have or do not use. They are as real as a therapists concept that they understand all about people.
I needed to go back to where some of us lived. In a way they still lived there. A huge error was I was on a sleep driving trip and went to a town where I moved when I was three and 1/2. One said “We do not live here.” I heard we do not live here anymore. I told my therapist about this and she was all excited. She thought it was progress at the time. Thing is I head right I repeated wrong. They said “We do not live here,” They did not they lived in other places before we were 3 1/2.
For me any recurring dream, trigger or flashback means something I need to work on. I had to make them my frienimies.
Illusions are not delusions only because they are shared. There is something special about the American People. They were on the winning side of the worlds wars and the battles did not happen here. The English thought they were special people when they happened to be geographically in the right place at the right time. Romans thought they were special. etc. In a funny on the Greeks thought they had a special knack for finance a while back.
With the current Sandusky trial the illusion that higher education is good has a small chink. The football will still be what higher education does well. It will all be seen as an exception, the guidance counselling, the police etc all will be seen as the exception rather than the norm which it really is.
I am not negative. I just do not build up others illusions as I see them as delusions. That way life is more real.
[…] Comments « DID: Alter Parts who Hurt other Alter Parts (Persecutor Parts) […]
Faith, thank you for writing about this.
I have read Safe Passage to Healing. Since my memories are still full of holes, and slowly recovering memories from my past, what really got me was how I really connected to the after effects of RA that is listed. I could have checked off almost every single one on the list. Since I have been doing a lot of work in therapy, I can see now why I am able to check off a lot on that list.
I really didn’t think anyone else went through alters attacking other insiders. I struggle with feelings of being raped, abused, molested, and the list goes on. I know that each and every alter has a purpose/job. Its just trying to sort through why they do what they do.
Plead help me
I
I read the part of the book abt the way people are if they’ve been RA and I’m all of them except for bout 3 of them.
I know I got abused by father but honestly don’t remember any RA. Now I am triggered and dissociating switching and body mems gushing.
Blue, I’m sorry that you are experiencing the triggers, switching, and body memories. If I remember correctly, I believe the book also said that a person may not have experienced RA even if they have several of the same after-effects. Bottomline is abuse is abuse.
I’m not discounting what you have experienced. I do think if you are not seeing a therapist, then this may be a good time to look into therapy to help you sort through the triggers, switching, and body memories.
I know I’m barely at a place that I’m beginning to uncover a bit more than what I thought I had experienced. I want to say it wasn’t that bad but it keeps hitting me in the face that no matter what/how it happened, it was bad enough to cause me years of turmoil.
Be safe and gentle with yourselves.
Hi, Blue.
I agree with Healing — If you don’t have a therapist yet, I strongly suggest that you find one. Healing from abuse, whether RA or not, is difficult work, and a qualified therapist with experience in working with child abuse survivors can be immensely helpful.
Also, if you haven’t visited http://www.isurvive.org, it’s a good place to get support 24/7. It’s a message board for child abuse survivors with members all over the world, so somebody is always around. :0)
~ Faith
I have backed off the you need a therapist concept. I have know of to many people that have healed without it.
I have always been aware that few have the chance to work with therapists at all and fewer still with therapists who are are competent. The reality those of us that work with gifted therapists are the lucky ones and in way elite.
That there is help available does not match the daily news nor reality. It would be nice if that was true it is not. Some people believe help is available to call it thinking is just not credible it would require a very selective as in delusional information selection.
I for one am going to honor those who are healing without a therapist. I am gong to acknowledge that it is not a choice for many people who have experienced trauma.
Part of it is a financial reality and I understand that.
First to HEALING. .
You are absolutely nit the only one with inside parts who harm other parts within or in the past in absense on being aware of time physical harm was done to the body but *I* would not recall how.
Now i understand.
– i have *seen* and * heard* other parts (2 specifically) harm others within. Just as i can see and hear them talking.
– my t does not think these are safe parts. She is learning. I am trying to understand them. This is difficult as tgey will not acknowledge me.
– how to *love*them is beyond my comprehension at this point. Wayyyyy too many within FEAR them. Walk on tiptoes to not upset the 2.
-currently no abusive behavior is occurring within but this is not good either because many are in distress and fear of “tge quiet before the storm” which is a term my mother used before my father would be at his most insane and unpredictable.
I dont know why they are within. I di not see positive there. Others are terrified. As *we* were by actual abuse perpetuated by many in growing up years.
Also. Michael
this is wonderful that you being a multiple ( and i do understand the difference) . .that your selves do not speak negatively to each other. Did they ever? I have several who see me as weak and ridiculous. Though that is improving as i am accepting more of their memoriescandchave great understanding and compassion. And try VERY hard to NOT call us crazy. That term is apparently scary and offensive.
I am not crazy.
Though i sure the hell feel it at times. Often.
*you do explain things well. I appreciate your insights also.
Faith- i continue to work on this all with my tgerapist. Thankyou for all. My theeapist has been amazing at trying to learn what she has not known and by simply trusting what i ( we ) say and tell or write her. She is very tuned in to my reactions and mannerisms etc and catches on to who says whst usually even if slight cgange. She looks back now and admitsxshe should have *seen* the DID before and can recall this or that time it was a different me speaking doing.
She and i disagree as the persecuter protector parts she is trying to learn. I am trying to accept. She fears them more than i. Fir me i. .We. .Live this way. Most just dont want to live with the internal abuse.
I want to understand WHY *I* created them. Yhey do SEEM very muchhhh fashioned after REAL ABUSERS in my childhood. But i only recall little about those 2 abusers as i *believe* it was withing the RA. I dont have a lot of those precise clear clear memories. . *I malanie”. Others do remember. They tell t this. They say they remember real people who *oddly* carry tge same name or title as the 2 harmful ones within. That tgey existed in RA. And they are within. I hear and see it. So much fear from others.
This is a horrid world to navagate my way though. I am still walking. I honor and respect what others within tell t or tell me.
The information and comments you and others here give to me are comforting and make me ( us) not feel so fuc**ng alone and scared. Losing time is scary especially as now i admit that i do and always did. Just trying to wade through who everyone is and hear and accept and remember what they tell me which *somehow* (?? )then *I* remember their memories too as if they were ALWAYS my memory too.
Im rambling.
Still struggling.
Still trying to becstrong.
Still do not feel strong.
Thankyou all so so so much.
Wirds cants express.
Prism
thankyou also. Yes. I agree tge brain splintered is a good way ro describe. And a sane response to the insane. Thankyou.
I wush wish wish i understood WHY my *brain* would create 2 parts within tho to csrry out tge past abuse in the same RA fashion it was in real life as was as a child.
And i want the internal fear of tge abusive 2 to stop. I dont know how to make that happen. I feel powerless as i did as a child. So much fear and “waiting” for the next abuse. The “quiet before the storm” within.
Last time ut was horrific. Much time lost. Much innappropriate behavior from *me* in this world. I think ( hell. Stupid comment by me duh) *know* it was some triggered my my mothers presence words. We had seen her.
I continually dream if her now. Dreams of alot again.
I agree with michael the dreams are others telling me stuff whether actual memories or a general direction.
Thankyou all.
THANKYOU.
feel utterly scared and sad and so exhausted mostcof thextime. It sucks.
Yet i still (we) do work. Be a mom. Apparently a goid one she tells me. We *function*. *live*. It is hard.