On my blog entry entitled Freemasons and Child Abuse, a reader posted the following comment:
I’m glad you posted this, Faith. I think that ritual abuse survivors can help each other alot by untangling their feelings about being abused by very organised, hierarchical groups of psychopaths. By whatever name they go. In my experience, this is the element of our issues with which classic child abuse therapists may have the most difficulty when you present it to them. They probably could do with the sort of skills that are used by therapists for those who have survived torture in war camps, or a sophisticated hostage situation, because the experience of being at the hands of the cult abusers is more like one of those experiences.
I agree with Michael that the occult practices of abuse have been handed down for generations, and also that it’s necessary not to accord them more power by believing them to be all-powerful, even if they do get away with such a lot of heinous crimes. ~ A x
I couldn’t have said that better myself. I just want to build on what A x already said.
The best analogy I have for explaining the difference between “regular” child abuse and ritual abuse is that “regular” child abuse is to street crime as ritual abuse is to organized crime. This does not, in any way, mitigate the trauma of “regular” child abuse. Just as being raped at knifepoint by someone who jumps at the opportunity is extremely traumatizing to the victim, all child abuse is traumatizing and needs healing.
I don’t want anyone walking away from this blog entry feeling invalidated because they were “only” abused once or twice by a neighbor. Even “only” one time is too many and traumatizing to a child.
That being said, those of us who have endured ritual abuse have issues to deal with that are not typically experienced by people who did not endure that form of abuse. As Michael and A x have both pointed out, ritual abuse is inflicted by “experts” who have been honing their skills in traumatizing children for generations. The goal is not an orgasm (versus many of the sexual abusers who “work alone”) — the goal is to dominate the child’s will. The lone sexual abuser treats the child’s body like an object to be used and then discarded. The ritual abuser seeks to break the child’s will and inflicts much more trauma than necessary to ensure the child’s silence.
Ritual abuse is systematic, not a crime of opportunity. “Regular” child abusers work alone and hope not to get caught. Ritual abusers are organized, abusing children in groups. “Regular” child abusers torture the child enough to scare him or her into silence. Ritual abusers go much, much farther than this. According to Chrystine Oksana’s Safe Passage to Healing, many ritual abusers purposely traumatize the child to point to creating alter parts (developing dissociative identity disorder – DID) so they can control different alter parts.
“Regular” child abuse only involves enough mind games to ensure the child’s silence. Ritual abusers take mind games to a whole new level. Mine instilled a phobia in me that tied into seeing my dog slaughtered and threatening my sister’s life. Ritual abusers often “program” the child to self-destruct rather than tell, which is why I managed to move through many stressful life events (father’s sudden death, infertility, adoption process, a year of recovered memories of mother-daughter sexual abuse) without ever self-injuring and then, as soon as the first ritual abuse surfaced, I couldn’t stop banging my head.
Ritual abuse is its own animal, and too few mental health professionals understand it. I strongly recommend Chrystine Oksana’s Safe Passage to Healing for anyone who has been ritually abused as well as any mental health professional who is working with someone who was ritually abused.
Photo credit: Rosanne Mooney
I wholeheartedly second the recommendation for “Safe Passage to Healing” by Chrystine Oksana. Be warned–it’s tough reading at times, and it can be triggering, but it really opens your eyes to what they did to us as children. Once you are aware of the techniques used by the ritual abusers, much of what they did loses its impact. It’s like going backstage and learning the magician’s secrets.
What I especially appreciated learning was how many of the things they put children through are faked.
* Potentially Triggering *
For example, many children believe that they’ve been forced to participate in ritual killings, infanticide, cannibalism, or other heinous acts–but many of these are actually faked by the ritual abusers. Children tend to believe what adults tell them, so if a child is told something, and then witnesses something dramatic to support what they’ve been told, they accept it as fact–when it may actually have been an elaborate illusion designed to manipulate and terrorize the child.
* End Triggering Content *
I also appreciated the calendar provided, which highlights some of the occult holidays. When I’m feeling very triggered and out of sorts, and I don’t have a clue why–sometimes it’s because there’s an anniversary approaching. One of their “holidays”, when they would step up the ritual abuse, or celebrate with a special kind of horror. Being aware of those dates makes it easier to deal with.
So yes, I definitely recommend this book! I wish there were more out there like it, too.
**trigger warning**RA SA
is any of this ‘normal’ sounding.. having any connection to/ with ritualized or organized abuse? im driving myself nuts trying to figure it out. its a theme playing over and over in my head. ive always remembered fragments of this but it is not exactly ‘disturbing’ to me. it has been in the past. ive been trying to figure out a few things in my dream and waking life that are predominate. if anyone..faith? has any insight or possible directions for me to look i would appreciate it. i didnt know where to post this. im just going to list what i know or remember.
1- my parents were swingers (shared sex with other people)
2- we were not allowed to be religious
3-yet, at about 9yrs
i went away to a ‘bible camp i remember hardly anything of. i was terrified. did not want to go.
4- at 17yrs i remember veiwing slides w my father and a neighbor (an abuser of mine, particularly evil) of sex that people i knew were participating in in the slides. i dont recall being in the slides. but, i do recall vacating my mind(drugged??emotionally left??) and the next thing happening i was naked in another room and being abused by my father and this man. i was vague in my state of mind. almost hypnotic in feeling.and ‘dead’.
5- i think often of torches and see them in daytime and dreams. not gold or brass. but heavyweight metal painted i think gold. flecks of shiney gold..like i focused on the flecks./ about 3 foot tall is all. sitting not being held by anyone.
6- kneeling, hynotic prayer like . not afraid.
7- matchsticks. like kitchen boxed matches. flame to skin. i find it mesmerizing to think of. i dont do it. but i have. it is a controlled sexual feeling associated with it.
8- garden snakes. lots of them. thousands in my mind. some green. (can they be green?) murky water.
9- earthworms. again thousands.
10- wooden objects inserted into my vagina. one in particular i can draw. pearshaped part that was inserted/ with a flat cylinder divided part between handle and inserted pear shaped part. (to stop the further insertion i think logically). in the pear shaped part..an opening at the bottom that could hold or remove or release something but i have no image of how anything could be held in place or released. ??it is just hollow and open on end that goes inside. i can feel the smooth polished weight of it its substance…heavy.good wood. it was polished wood except for 3 clawlike side pieces that were rough that could hurt or tear when coming out not being inserted. and 3 diamond shaped marks. raised above the surface (not engraved) .
11- the smell of mold and a scent i cant place. heavy. hurting to my head.nauseating.
12- the number .. “3”
anyone have any ideas or suggestions or directions. im searching for answers.
It’s really hard to say whether something you experienced is ritual abuse or repeated sexual/physical abuse. Ritual abuse tends to be about *more* than just the abusers gratifying themselves. It’s about dominating the child, breaking their will, maybe even forcing them to dissociate. Sometimes it’s part of an organized group, other times it’s just one family, or even just a single person who decided to ritualize their abuse of a child.
I’m not sure whether knowing if it was “normal” abuse or “ritual” abuse matters. What I mean is, I think you can still heal from ritual abuse even if you’re not sure whether it was RA or not. You use the same techniques, the same methods of healing. You have to teach yourself to understand that NONE of it was your fault—that the blame, the shame, and the guilt rests SOLELY on the abuser/s, and not on you. (You were an innocent child that was victimized.) You have to accept that the memories will come when you’re ready and able to face them, and not before. And you have to acknowledge that what happened is in the past. It stopped (in most cases) a long time ago. They can’t hurt you anymore.
I sure hope you have or are seeking a good therapist Melanie that is familiar with RA.
Malanie,
I find that drawing is the best way to get at some memories. Sometimes with my left hand. It is intense always. I do not draw the horror as in actual depictions of what happened. I once drew a projector that was used to show slides.
Over time this has become a way not only to get to the memories but to hold them for a while longer. As an example I know we are going to find out how we got our scar on our little finger. I know we are going to draw a wood burning tool. We have no idea if that was the tool that was used or not.
It is not about the art it is about the memory. Some of us have out own gear we call it. Some use a number three pencil, some crayons, some colored pencils, some ink some paint and some want to use finger paints.
We often do this alone at home and then show it to our therapist. We find it extreemly helpful to leave the drawings with her.
We stayed away from doing research. As an example it would be confusing to us to try and search our memory and see if we have seen the same object that you describe with the claws.
We did see many torches and for a while felt guilt that we were fascinated by them and liked learning to make them.
We often draw and then tell our therapist what it is. it does not matter if the depiction is even recognizable.
This is different than expressive therapy where we might draw a Mandela. This is specific to getting our memory back.
We stay away from the draw something about how you see your relationships or stuff like that. We stay away from interpretation as in oh we drew water frozen that means we have memories we are not facing. That sort of stuff gets in our way and is used as a shield.
We have just started movement therapy. We started by showing our therapist how to hit a 50 degree and a 60 degree wedge golf shot. I am sure she was thrilled. Smile.
Michael
Thanks so much for picking up on my comment and expanding this here, Faith. I’m so glad of this connection!
***Triggering***
I am not a long way into healing ritual abuse, but would like to share here the onion-like levels of silencing programming that I have had to work through so far to get towards healing. I like to use natural images, like an onion, to think of this process, rather than ‘unlocking of doors to reach the real me’-type imagery which is too close to what they used to program and hypnotize me.
I like to think of healing as a gradual self-expansion and self-acceptance rather than revelation, for the same reasons.
When I very first had thoughts that I had been sexually abused, programming told me to sought counselling for compulsive masturbation/ fears about my sexual identity. I was told that it was normal to experiment by the counsellors, that stopped me from questioning more my abuse for a while.
I later remembered the sexual abuse but believed it was all at a very young age. I think this is because I was raped as a toddler and then would dissociate to that age in future rapes, so felt I was always a – notably preverbal – toddler when being raped. Various props were used to dissociate me to toddler-terror state and were brought out for later rapes, so I believe this was done on purpose by my abusers.
I later had a huge conflict trying to repress teenage rapes. I had a memory of a satanic ritual and I had been drugged, that didn’t fit in with my beliefs in it all happening when I was a toddler. I did try to speak about the satanic ritual but it didn’t make sense, to me or to anyone listening, if I continued to maintain I was a toddler at the time.
When I began to remember deeply traumatic things done to me in my adolescence, I experienced terror flashbacks, and insistent programming that I would kill myself if I remembered this. It took me about two years (alone, no therapist found) to overcome this suicide programming which was accompanied by memories of ritual killings made to look like suicides.
Finally I have been able to remember a little of the teenage abuse and the child pornography and occult organised abuse, which is connected to most socially
elevated people. These memories are the ones most needing healing, but the most ‘unbelievable’, however, I know I can believe them because of the gradual onion-like layers I had to work through to find them.
***End triggers***
I second what you say about all abuse leaving terrible scars and am so thankful that we can voice some of what happened to us in our ritual abuse here, for healing.
thank you for this post Faith.
thank you for your comments too, Midge and A x.
Thanks you, Faith.
I have been reading/working through chapters of the Safe Passages book with my T for several months now – had my “Recovery Meeting” about 7 weeks ago, and feel right now very crazy, unsettled, and … it is the difficult time. I am working through the different levels of programming, trying to reconcile the ‘where does this feeling come from?’ because I’ve not experienced them before (i.e., increased/intensified SH thoughts). It is exhausting, and I have had more headaches in the past weeks, it is a struggle to maintain my everyday life at the same time.
There is a small, but important distinction I’d like to add regarding ritual abuse/organized crime that was touched upon in Safe Passages. Those people who suffered from cult-related RA, or SRA, often were instilled with the rhetoric that their suffering was for some higher purpose, and I think that adds yet another layer of healing for some folks (their spirit or faith was harmed along with their bodies). Those people who were hurt for purposes of organized crime (child pornography/prostitution, etc) have many of the same tactics used with programming, threats to ensure silence, and deliberate scenarios to cause splitting so as to have a compliant victim – but then learn it is for no purpose but twisted gratification of the perpetrators, which can increase the intensity of the shame.
I am very fortunate to have a T well-versed in the area of treating folks who come from abusive backgrounds. I feel even more fortunate to have found your blog, because while the T is skilled – he hasn’t been through it. I am sorry for your past, but am very, very thankful that you are willing to share your continued healing, as it brings me much hope for my future.
wtr
I am not ever invalidated. I get very very angry when people try to do so.
I use the term extreme trauma. I reference Ellen Lacter’s web site for the definition. http://endritualabuse.org/ and Niel Brick’s web site http://ritualabuse.us/
It is invalidating to consider all trauma the same with the same effecrts. Those that have experienced extreme trauma are often left out of the loop. If they do not fit the model of dissociation than they tend to be on their own.
I was not part of MKULTA experiments. I was part of a program that had been developed. Not only is this experience different it makes the experience with the cults different. Note the cults were paid to traumatize the children as the Psychiatrists, psychologists, professors and educators were squeamish about it.
My healing needs to be a creative endeavor. I will give an example.
Some of us have never ever been inside. We have slept on porches. Now we now this we will work with our therapist to explore this.
We have an idea that her and I can go for a paddle in our kayaks. We asked her last session as we were on the porch of her office as we were leaving. Just figured out that the ones that have never been inside asked her.
My therapist adapts to my experiences I do not adapt to her understanding or what she was taught.
The ethics of psychotherapy and the core principles do apply. The current understanding of the effects of trauma do not.
Not only were my experiences different I experience things differently now. I have been near drowned often I love to swim and the reason is when I was an infant and was thrown in the water I could swim away. You do not get that level of understanding with cognitive therapy.
The hard part is the current understanding of trauma fits better than anything else.
Question:
Is it possible to be RA and never get your memories back? Would like to hear more of ones beginnings of getting memories back and the progression/ regression of them. Mine seem to be fading more and more. I hear many say, once they came, they could not stop them. With me, once I got a few serious memories, fear shut me down and I cannot retrieve anything anymore, and not sure that I am going to ever try.
Heavenly Places, I think healing and recovering memories is a very individual process. Each person is going to process things at their own rate. For me, I had a slow but steady trickle of memories come back, and then it stopped. I know there are still events that I haven’t remembered. I know *of* them, but I can’t recall any details. And I’m certain there are still more events that I simply have no knowledge of, yet.
One thing that I’ve seen stressed many times is that you won’t remember traumatic memories until you’re able to cope with them. If there are things that you still can’t recall, there’s probably a reason for it. Maybe you just need a break from it all, to give your psyche a chance to heal before it goes through all that trauma again. Maybe you’re not in a strong enough place, emotionally, to be able to deal with the memories just now.
I’m certain that I will keep on recovering memories, once I’ve stabilized emotionally and can face the horrible things that I must remember.
Thanks Midge! That is what I keep being told. But the uncertainty of so many things keep me unsettled. It is nice to have a break from it all though and to feel stabilized again. Did your nightmares stop when the memories stopped coming?
Actually, the nightmares all but stopped once I discovered I had an alter with the ability to control our dreams. We politely asked him to find a way to prevent the constant stream of nightmares and he did. He’s done a fantastic job of it, too. Where we used to wake up screaming several times a week, it only happens once every few months, now.
Come to think of it, we’ve been having more and more nightmares of late. I’m thinking that means there’s some bad memories that are trying to work their way loose. I’ve suspected that for awhile, to be honest. I just need to find the courage to face them.
The thing I keep telling myself is–I already experienced it *and survived*. It isn’t going to kill me to remember it. In fact, if I re-live it, I can relegate the memory to the past where it belongs–and I’ll be that much freer.
I understand. That fear is tough. Mentally I think, “I can handle it,” but when it STRIKES- its a whole other matter.
Heavenly Places,
I am working on memories right now that I started on years ago. In a real way there was no order and I need to create that order.
Once the memories came memories kept coming. For me I learned that many memories were stored differently if not all. I had to process all my memories with the traumatic ones. This was not conscious it just happened over time once I got the ball rolling so to speak.
I have not had night terrors in a few years. I have had a few nightmares. A nightmare in a way now is telling me I am ready to process something. The nightmare for me is not a direct connection to the trauma. I have a sense that it is a connection to how we dealt with the trauma when it happened. A kinda revisiting the subconscious process of or processing the trauma when it happened.
If find it helpful to think in terms of reprocessing the trauma. The concept that I just dissociated from the trauma and did no processing is not what happened.
I stay away from processing it correctly or even as an adult. We process it again in a way that is adapted for now. We do not buy into that we are maladaptive.
Triggering
There was much deception with regards to what was really being done. There were people who did die. I would guess that sometimes the fake killings were a stepping stone to the actual killings. To be blunt if you liked the fake killings and took glee in them than you might be allowed into a different sect of the cult.
I feel and am comfortable with I can differentiate between what was fake and what was real. I have the two to compare and an actual death is different.
I am what is called extrafamerial my family was not nor would they be involved. Not even joiners in general. As such I was often the center of a ceremony and an outsider. I might be the one exorcised and I knew it was fake. I was jerking around from electricity not the devil.
The higher purpose is more than just a justification for some. They feel they are superior and that you are serving a higher purpose. In MKULTRA I was often told I was one of the elite and what did not kill me would make me stronger.
I decided to stay away from reading books. Some of us do not read. I am aware of some of the dates as I remembered them.
All of the cults I had to deal with and MKULTRA were in the mid 50’s 60’s. The concept was not multiple rather split personality as in two. The thinking the were trying to create a multiple was a wrong road for me. Makes sense given the time of the abuse. It was confusing as different cults would use different keys and I had to guess what they wanted.
Some of the cults were more base. Some of them were very rich and I have been to very nice compounds on lakes. Some of the houses were high end and sometimes it was a shack. Some of the ceremonies were very elaborate with expensive costumes. Some old robes that were torn and dirty.
The drugs do make the memory work hard. It adds a layer to the confusion.
Part of it is are you willing to be wrong. You might doubt that they would dare kill your family. Is it worth the risk? Made harder if they have proved the capacity to kill.
I would like to write that this is all getting easier for me. I can come across a program where I was to drive off a cliff and just go OK that is where that comes from we can do that later. Some things are not like that.
This morning I knew that they thought I was two people. There was a resistance to let anyone know the secret that we fooled them all we were many many people. Now it is processed more it is fine.
I wanted to add:
***Triggering***
Another level of my programming which I have most recently been battling, is that I was taught (somehow) that I would be perceived as – and treated as – a psychopath if I tried to go back to the memories of their psychopathic actions and what I was forced to do to assist them as a child, i.e. criminal and terrible things that harmed others.
This is scary and very difficult, because the way that society treats psychopaths is scary. It does not accord them emotion, empathy, the ability to change for the better. If part of me believes I’m a psychopath, then that instils in me a deep panic that I must not show to others, a deep fear of looking out-of-control etc.
This part of my programming has come up for me whenever Faith you have said that your therapist advised you not to try to get into the heads of the abusers. It is true that I cannot get into the head of somebody who has any autonomy and decides to do what was done to me, and I do believe those people had autonomy and decided to do it, they were not all endlessly totally controlled with no capacity to do otherwise. However, I also have some empathy in that I see that the way out for them was very hard. What I struggle to do is not let my empathy elide in any way with their programming of me that told me I am and will always be ‘one of them’, a psychopath, and that others will always see that in me. That is the path to self-destruction.
I think that suicides like the man who played the Joker may well be triggered by such programming, where they have not been able to heal from difficulties like mine described above and are made to ‘put themselves in the shoes of’ psychopaths, unless their sense of self is strong enough and their programming gone enough. Just a hypothesis, based on my realization that I have to carefully distinguish myself from pscyhopaths, notice that triggers are any time that people perceive me as having any behaviour that is even vaguely associated with psychopaths (such as, being non-effusive) and yet have compassion for people who see no way out, namely children inside who had no way out and those so controlled they had to act as psychopaths to survive.
***End triggers***
Quite exhausting but – I hope – rewarding work.
Perhaps only minimally relevant to most who read this blog, but it is something I wonder about. I walk both sides of the fence when i participate in this blog. Since I am recovering from my own PTSD, sometimes I participate from that standpoint, but since I am therapist who often deal with trauma clients and those with DID, I sometimes participate from that standpoint. Right now I am a therapist- but perhaps one who is being a bit triggered. I wonder if therapists (including me) can have a sense of when they are dealing with someone who has a background of “regular child abuse” versus one who has a background of ritual abuse. I wonder because I often deal with those who have had “regular” abuse and at times cry at their stories. But I am dealing with someone now who I have a completely different response to. I mean I feel the same caring for her than I do for any client, but when we work with deep issues (even though she doesn’t have memories yet), I feel high anxiety and a sense of overwhelming darkness. I don’t know if we will discover there is a background of ritual abuse or not, but there is something qualitatively different in working whatever place she functions from deep inside. Which brings me back to my original pondering- whether therapists can somehow subjectively intuitively tell when there is something “different” going on.
I would say Elaine that it is likely really important for your client’s therapy that you own – as you have here – the high anxiety you feel and the overwhelming darkness that you feel when talking with her, as it could certainly be triggering to her to impute the sense of darkness to her in any way, if she is a survivor of occult abuse. She would probably benefit from you owning those feelings as your own and analyzing them and their origin in depth with your supervisor so as not in any way to be perceiving them as part of her. I hope that helps you.
That is very wise advice A x
“The ritual abuser seeks to break the child’s will and inflicts much more trauma than necessary to ensure the child’s silence.”
I can relate to that statement. My abuser was very much into ritualized abuse as a way of breaking me down. The abuse was very step-by-step, so I always knew what was coming, every time. Needless to say, it really messed with my head. The ritual aspect of it is the part that now sickens me the most.
Elaine,
I can only speak for me. Few therapist can see that there is something different about me They typically mash me into what they were taught even if they are trauma and DID experts. This includes those that work at McLean’s hospital. They are confident they know what is going on they are just wrong.
The general population is more apt to be aware that I am different. Artists as a group seem more able to understand something is different and accept it.
No therapist will ever have a clue of what I experienced unless I let them know. Good news is no therapist has to guess or can guess as much as we wished that could happen.
Most therapists “go away” when I speak of abuse that is not normal as most people do. At Mclean’s if I talk about the normal abuse I may get tears outside of that and I will be told that is to much information or we do not deal with memories here.
If a therapist can not go outside of their knowledge/experience/comfort zone they are going to be at best useless to us. We do not communicate and they believe that we do. Typically they inform with information that is incorrect for us.
I only work with professionals that understand they do not understand. Those that want to help and are willing to discover with me ways that are helpful.
Pretty much I am going to need to lead most of the time if a therapist is going to be helpful.
No therapist is ever going to be on my side of the fence unless they have experienced a lot of extreme trauma and then it is doubtful.
If a therapist needs to understand to stay present than they are not going to help.
It would have been helpful if many therapists that I dealt with knew when they were in over their head. Typically when that happens a therapist will blame the client or say the client was not ready when it is really the therapist that can not deal.
Michael- I was not suggesting that I would “know” because of any great understanding. I was just aware that I experience something subjectively different with some clients. Sometimes i feel “sick” when dealing with their issues. It is not a reaction to the client, but to something that feels very evil. I am not talking about religious oriented stuff either- just plain old human evil.
A previous blog about Masons is another example. I’ve never had the experiences like you have, but I have always been very uncomfortable with the Masons. -And again I am not making a statement about individuals there- but collectively it creates a lot of discomfort in me.
I never really assume I understand anything about another person- no matter how “simple” the issues might seem. It is the quickest way to invalidate another human being. I just prefer to learn from them. I’m sure that comes from my own experience as a client. I’ve had therapists assume that they understood so many times when they completely didn’t get it, and didn’t even seem to be listening. It still happens to me these days, and I still end up feeling hurt and angered by it.
Elaine,
If I am with my therapist there is no plain old human evil present. She does not bring it nor do I.
Perhaps you are sensing something that is not plain old human evil. Not from your client rather evil is around to see if there is an opening.
I only worried about evil once with my therapist. She had a new office and so we checked to see if it was OK. I never had the sense she felt I brought evil to her office.
I am told that we do always check. It was just that I was aware of it that once.
Perhaps we have stumbled on the difference between some RA and normal abuse. There was more than just plain old human evil involved. It sure is more than human gratification. I have known both.
It is my personal belief that humans can not be pure evil only do purely evil things and not by themselves. Just as humans can not be pure good or do purely good things by themselves.
I don’t agree with the statement: “those of us who have endured ritual abuse have issues to deal with that are not typically experienced by people who did not endure that form of abuse. As Michael and A x have both pointed out, ritual abuse is inflicted by “experts” who have been honing their skills in traumatizing children for generations. The goal is not an orgasm (versus many of the sexual abusers who “work alone”) — the goal is to dominate the child’s will. The lone sexual abuser treats the child’s body like an object to be used and then discarded. The ritual abuser seeks to break the child’s will and inflicts much more trauma than necessary to ensure the child’s silence.”
My parents were my abusers, and they didn’t abuse anyone except me. I don’t know how, but they were experts in what they did. And believe me, they dominated my will, but they also treated me as ‘an object that could be thrown away–I was only wanted to meet their needs. The things they did were systematic, and although I do not have DID, I was severely abused and tortured. And really, they did ‘break’ me, because they never stopped anyone else from abusing me, either. I guess my point, is that I don’t think there are as many ‘differences’ as there are similarities between “RA” and “Regular” child abuse. ABUSE IS ABUSE, AND IT SHOULDN’T HURT TO BE A CHILD.
Hi, Theresa.
It is possible that you were your parents’ only victims. It is also possible that they only led you to believe this. Typically, ritualized abuse is not “organized” for only one victim. However, making you believe you were the only victim would cause you to feel further isolated, which would add to the trauma.
– Faith
Theresa,
I did not mean and doubt that Faith meant worse. It is a case of it being different.
I would not portent that it makes it harder to heal.
I could make a case that live has been easier for me as a multiple which is the direct result of the methods used. And that healing for me is easier as a multiple. Even getting help might be easier although not easy as there is a certain amount of fascination working with multiples.
Part of it is systematic method is knowing to deprive the child of food and sleep then bury them then when they are dug up there is a crowd. Then you are the center of some ceremony where every on else knows what is going on and is clothed and you are not. You are standing there the center of attention with drums and chanting going on. Afterwards you are left by your self. Then you find yourself in the woods naked and have to find your own way back to somewhere.
There is much prep work done before the ceremony.
This mornings post by faith is about Russian dolls. In my case the doll in the middle is eaten by one of the programers. There is a whole process that she used that I do not yet know.
To borrow from the news Jaycee Dugard’s experiences are different than cult abuse.
The term regular abuse is just a term, the best that there is. Torture is not what I would call regular abuse. Some would say that rape is torture. I can not believe that anyone who has been tortured would agree.
It should not hurt to be a child. I just find it helpful to heal to stay away from all abuse is abuse and one heals from it the same way.
Michael- We may just have different belief systems around the issue of evil. I very rarely use the word because it brings up connotations of satan and demons and things like that, and I do not happen to believe in those things. I usually refer to people being very sick and doing very sick things out of their own brokenness. When I do use the work evil I am using it in the sense of what M. Scott Peck referred to in “People of the Lie.” It is not only a disregard for other people’s rights and needs, but a total unawareness of them. Then when you put it in a collective setting like with ritual abuse it is HUGE. My sense and belief system around this is that the cumulative human evil becomes a force of its own. For me there is nothing supernatural about it. I do not think the client is evil, I do not think I am evil, but when we start getting into her issues I feel something very dark, as opposed to something very sick in terms of what she has experienced.
She also “feels” programmed to me. It is like there is no where to go for her. If she tries to go one way she is blocked by a self-destruct button, if she goes another way she is terrified and has to stop. I “feel” that sense of terror and being trapped when I work with her in those areas.
You notice i use the word “feel” a lot. For me, I may know a lot of stuff through my education and my experience, but that is secondary when i am working with people. I am much more of an intuitive and sensing person when I try to experience another person’s reality. This client does not actually have DID- but sort of. Some brief periods of missing time- some actions she doesn’t remember, and a lot of amnesia for the past. The parts of her she does experience seem demonic to her. But her current religious belief system would enforce that. It is also more than that because her physical demeanor if you even get too close to a trigger point (of which there are many) seems like a caged animal.
I am struggling with how to honor her belief system which is very different than mine, when I am also thinking that some of her belief system may be programming, while seeing the actions of a caged animal who seeks freedom, but knows if they pursue it they will self-destruct. That is the best I can explain about why I get a completely different “vibe” from this client. I often work with “parts therapy” even for those which are not obviously multiple because we are all multiple in a way as far as where our “buttons” are located and the reactivity that comes from them. It is sort of a non-DID type of switching. But I am wondering about hypnosis when there has been programming that keeps the conscious mind from looking at certain things. Does anyone have an opinion as to whether that would make it better or worse in dealing with a client who may have experienced programming. I am venturing into unknown territory here (which is not unusual for me), and do not want to risk causing more harm.
“I am wondering about hypnosis when there has been programming that keeps the conscious mind from looking at certain things. Does anyone have an opinion as to whether that would make it better or worse in dealing with a client who may have experienced programming.”
I have had a couple people tell me that they believe I have been programmed. My T is not too familiar with that so she doesn’t “go there.” I have done a little self-hypnosis and have tapped into terror and immediately fell back out. I can no longer self-hypnotize.
The best help I had was reading the book “From Surviving to Thriving- a Therapist’s Guide to Stage 2 recovery for Survivors of Childhood Abuse.”
This book has been helpful because of all the “exercises” it has you do. When I do a writing exercise or a picture etc… there is a lot of “self-discovery” and that is where real healing begins.
My therapist can tell me a lot about what is going on with me, why I react in certain ways, and I get it cognitively. But when it really hits is when I discover it myself.
You might encourage your client in this way, that healing has to be something that is very important to them and that they are their own greatest advocate. And then give them lots of support. Try and find anything good and praiseworthy about her and point that out sincerely from your heart.
If she brings up that she feels “evil” or “bad” let her know that is because that is what was projected on her by her abusers.
***abuse triggers***
An example: I told my therapist of a time when I was about five or six and my little brother was 2 years younger than I. He asked me if I wanted to go take a bath with him. We were in the tub, and he would put his head in the water and come up with his hair sticking straight up and I was laughing so much at him. Suddenly, my dad appears in the doorway. The feeling is dark and dooms day. “Get out of the tub” he tells my brother and then he takes him back and whips him.
I do not know if I was whipped. I do not remember. But for years I believed we were doing something dirty- that I was nasty.
My therapist asked me, “What do you think your dad was seeing when he came in and saw you two in the bathtub together?”
I thought for a minute and then said, “something dirty”
She said, “yes, and who was that projected on?”
“Ohhhhhhhh” the light goes on. We were just little kids. We were not even thinking that way- but his spirit, his reaction, his behavior, the punishment he gave taught us something completely different than the truth or the reality of what was really going on. We were two children playing in a bathtub innocently having fun- TRUTH.
We were two children being nasty- LIE!
That moment was very eye-opening to me and very healing.
Faith,
Thank you so much for addressing these issues. And thank you all respondents as well. This is very helpful to me. I have a friend (whom I am in love with) who I just realized has DID…..He picks the method of communication, which thus far has just been pictures, whereby to communicate with me. There were verbal and written words between us in the beginning, for a couple weeks only, until I became a threat emotionally to his system. I got shut out not knowing why, but I kept emailing him my feelings in utmost honesty (as i knew he loved), let him see my life–basically left myself totally open, and continue to do so, while he shut himself totally down.
But he’s been showing me he cares for me for the past 8 months through pictures and that has been getting progressively more intense. Some of the last pics I’ve ‘received’ have shown me his true feelings for me, and one of his young parts, a young part who has likely been a victim of rsa.
I haven’t spoken about his likely abuse or rsa with my friends, but they know the gist that he has “issues.” Anyone ‘normal’ person would, and all have, tell me that this guy is bad for me, that he’s not communicating normally, that I am chasing ghosts. These are things I grapple with on an hourly basis myself. But I love him so much, my intuition leads me to stay, and not only stay but go deeper with him, as in I feel, and have told him, like I am in a relationship with him, and want to be–I feel his mind pulling me deeper. I trust him and he’s put up with a lot of ignorance and Triggering! on my part until I figured it out (after a 4th run-in with his sentry recently). I don’t even know if he *knows* he has DID or was abused, or how much he knows. I only know part of him is showing me who he is.
So I stay. I am pretty dang sure he is ‘faithful’ to me and not playing me or using me or any other such negative thing; he is a good person. I just have no support for staying because this is no man’s land. But I cannot leave him, nor make him be verbal with me. I am struck with how much Michael’s comment about therapists helped me. I am TOTALLY following my guy’s lead, there is simply no other option here, unless I take everyone’s advice and abandon him. And I don’t abandon anyone (as was done to me). So. Here I am. I have no idea if I’ll ever see him again. All I want to do at this point is put my arms around him and love him (which I tell him as well).
Abuse expands exponentially to hurt so many.
Thank you so much for hearing my story…..I have found little outlet for my feelings, and feel like it is so hard to find someone who understands that I might want to stay by my guy’s side, even though is it strange and not typical.
Friend of Many,
It is certainly not typical. I have no clue if it is possible for a person in a non-therapeutic relationship to help someone heal.
I know I will not do it. I had a friend who wanted me to fill this role. Every Tues she would start with a transference with her father. She would call me a narcissist. This was because she used to see a therapist on Tues and did work with her relationship with her father.
On Thursday she would start in on teaching me yoga. This was about her relationship with her yoga teacher.
It did not work for me. She was disappearing me and not relating with me.
I was yelling at my therapist this morning. Telling her what to do and calling her stupid. Saying things like “Did you ever think of that? No you did not.” Her and I both know what is going on and at the end of the session I gave her a hug and left. I just can not see that happening outside of a therapeutic relationship. Does not mean it can not happen.
My therapist is not my friend and certainly not my lover. She is not my abuser nor is she my mother. She is my therapist. It is all about me. That is why it works. If it becomes about her than I have a responsibility which would at best make every thing harder.
Michael
Heavenly Places- I appreciate your input. My concern is not very much a matter of not making it worse. I have the book you recommended. The problem is my client does not have memories of abuse. Other parts do. So we are still working at her getting in touch with other parts. I’m used to using some level of hypnosis/guided relaxation with “regular” abuse survivors, but I do worry about trying it if there has been programming involved earlier. To me that would be another way that I would need to understand the difference between “regular” abuse and anything that would involve programming or RA. I just don’t want to assume I can apply one situation to another.
Would love for you to keep us updated on your progress with this client- for learning purposes. I know confidentiality is of utmost importance but if you can just teach us what you are learning in a round-about way…
Heavenly Places- I would be glad to share as we progress in our work. I’m not sure how to do that within the context of the blog because it might take us off topic. It would be fine to email me directly. Anything I share would not just be to show what I am learning, but also if there are any ideas you would have to help me understand. I do not know that that client has a background of RA. It was only in listening to this discussion about the differences between regular abuse and RA that I started wondering what the indicators would be that would tell me the difference.
I have other clients I have worked with with DID and other levels of trauma and seem some totally amazing things happen by seeking to understand their inner world. I am always left in awe at the strength and resiliency of these people, and I often feel like I have encountered something extremely holy in being given the privileged of working with such amazing people.
There are stories I would like to tell because they are amazing, but it is a delicate thing to share someone else’s experience. It takes a release of information even though the details are disguised in the writing. I have always encouraged clients to write something to tell their own stories. No one knows their life better than them, and ultimately it is not about my work, but about their journey.
A x and Heavenly Places- I was not insinuating in any way that I thought my client was evil. I was attempting to communicate that that I have a sense that something evil has happened to her. I was just comparing this to my usual sense of feeling when working with “regular” abuse clients even when they have DID, when I sense there has been something awful happen to them because they grew up around very sick people.
My “wondering” out loud was whether or not this sense of my having a different subjective sense could actually mean that something “different” had happened to this client.
My training has taught me to give credence to subjective feelings because they are often informative- and to look “both ways”- at what is happening with in me, and to what the client may be trying to communicate non-verbally. Some times when working with a client suddenly feeling “different” can mean you are picking up on the feeling state of the client- and if that is the case it is good information.
I’m really kind of stressed right now. I understand everyone is at their own level of triggering over such intense subjects, but it almost feels like there is a lot of arguing starting to take place, and that is hard for me right now. Then top it off by finding out today that the situation that created my first PTSD and changed my life forever is going to be staring me in the face again in about a month. Although the person and I have made peace many long years ago, I just found out that the person involved and the place it happened are coming together again, and I will be there. I’m just sort of overcome with terror right now, and the arguing isn’t helping.
My trauma is not like yours, but it is my own, but it spun a 26 year old woman’s life out of control so that now as a 55 year old woman I know I have spent all these years in between just trying to survive.
I just need to find a peaceful place right now, so I am going to exit this blog world for awhile. I’m sorry I am not really one of you. I didn’t experience RA, I didn’t even experience “regular” sexual abuse. Sometimes that is what makes it so hard. There is no one like me so no one can understand.
Hi Elaine,
I may not understand you but just wanted to let you Im also not one of the “regulars”. Yet I think the reason why we all share in Faiths blog is that all our experiences of abuse have something in common that has not been covered elsewhere. and has also not yet been widely talked or informed about either. I sometimes felt I had no legitimation cos of my “irregular” abuse yet I still could so relate. took me a while to figure out that what matters to me are my traumas and struggles which are the same like everyone elses here. I sometimes think what Faith is doing is pioneering and we are her fellow pioneers. it looks like Faith hit a taboo in talking about the differences within abuse cos its a better/worse trigger cos we all fear invalidation when in fact we might need some proper categories and definitions. Maybe int he future there might be blogs dealing with ritual abuse specifically and some dealing with non-defined abuse specifically( I thought about setting one up cos I knew I couldnt be the only one:) but until then Im feeling very much at home here cos its the only place that comes close to discussing what I have experienced.
Hi, carolin4real.
If you would like to email me some examples of the types of abuses you have suffered or post about them in the comments, I will be happy to build some blogs around them. If you want to stay anonymous, you can email the info to me, and I’ll use it to start the discussion without directly quoting you or naming you.
I do have an “other” category under types of abuse, but it only has two topics so far — enemas/tubes and virgin waxes/botox. I would like to build that part of the blog, but I’ll need others to supply the topics. :0)
– Faith
heavenly places, what specifically. and anywhere i can seek answers ? i am trying to piece it all together. it does matter. they are my memories. i am not just crazy. as i wish i was. crazy is easier. ??yes i hv wonderful therapist. she believes me.
I just wanted to say that this was the best “discussion” that I have seen about RA being different than other types of abuse.
I have always felt that there was a difference and often when I expressed it what seemed to be heard was it was worse.
Good Effort to all.
Agree, Michael. It’s one of the most taboo subjects in western society and I have been reflecting on my great admiration of Faith for seemingly so easelessly opening up a place online where this can be talked about.
Hi, A x.
Thanks for the compliment. :0)
Believe me, it’s not easy. I am going through another phase of recovering RA memories, which will be the topic of some of next week’s blog entries.
I talk about the tough topics because it’s necessary. Child abuse survivors of all forms of child abuse need a place where they can talk about it and learn from others that the abuse was not their fault and that they can heal. :0)
– Faith
still trying to pull together pieces of the fragments i have. it is crazymaking in my head. i am not afraid of the memories. i just want them i have the stuff posted way above on june 3rd. and, i hear one say ‘wait’ til the memories come. one person say it doesnt matter if it was ritualized or organized in some way. one say it sounds ritualized and/or organized at the least. i just want to know if the details fragmented in my head that i DO remember… are they common themes. anyone have a clue here. its driving me batty. please?or.. where to seek the info i want. anyone else remember wooden object like i described. it is unsettling..yes.. but.. my memory. and i want my memory. PLEASE…anyone???
Hi, Malanie.
My parents were “swingers” with S & L, who were my most sadistic abusers that pulled my sister and me into the RA.
As for the wooden object — my abusers use the smallest Russian nesting doll, which is am guessing would be similar in size and shape — for the same purpose.
– Faith
faith. would you have any other ideas on this stuff that circles like a cyclone in my head? im so lost here. and it is crazymaking day and nite. i shld just let it go but cant. its like i ‘have’ to figure this out. its a big piece of my puzzle im thinking. i dont know. its always been there just i didnt talk about the few thungs i listed and shoved them aside for years. seemed too nuts. i wonder at the vivid imagry in my head. my sister doesnt remember the surroundings but remembers other people..men..there having sex w her. i remember the circumstances. or i imagine it. i dont know. does it sound just ‘created by my father and neighbors, friends, swingers..for their entertainment? or ritualistic or at least organized? what could the purpose of an ‘opening in the center of the wooden object i describe be for? i cant recall how anything would be released or held on to in its hollow area. and it is smooth except the 3 triangles and the claw peices. three is a predominate number. i always always called it my favorite now im wondering if it had meaning. any idea? are garden snakes or worms at all normal to a setting as such? and why would i be soooo mesmerized at fire wanting to hold a flame to my skin doesnt make me afraid at all. its a sexual anxiety feeling but of total control i do not do it now. i did when younger. but i dont think most people feel this way.///// hey, wanted to tell you that my one sister who i listed the 30 questions to who said she couldnt deal with them..she did finally answer me some and seems okay with answering. she has 5 entire years missing tho. she said i did make her rethink some things she had been told. that is good. she believed what i said and was able to validate some things which were huge to me. and very triggering. you know. this sucks that i was doing really great and then i got triggered by ‘knowing’ for a fact about a man who was my fathers friend and a neighbor abusing me. i could ‘doubt’ my reality until my sister could describe him to a T. then i knew …knew.. my memory was entirely correct. //// i do not know how to send you personally an email????? i have a couple post ideas. and had wanted your email one time before. is it ok for me to know it? thanks. and…ANY direction to loooook or input you have regarding my loist of the odd memory stuff i question. id appreciate it. its confusing. and vaque. and i hate it. i want to know. thanks
hi. dont mean to be annoying…just dont know where to seek answers to my questions in my head. seems like the images are more dominant and ever present but i cant get clear answers from within my brain. i imagine or remember fire torches. not fancy ones. 3 foot tall. garden snakes, earthworms. kneeling. hypnotic manner. hands folded. that wooden object inserted into me with the opening and 3 claws. what is the number 3 in any of this? and a smell and noise. not music. mold. and another smell i cant place. what would my parents being swingers have to do with it. and i know i was sexually abused by my father, 2 neighbors and a man he worked with. related > or not? such confusion. i dont know where to seek the answers i want. i have always been a self injurer in many ways. and i have always ‘known’ some of the images in my head. thinking i was just crazy. my sister remembers men in a place but nothing else and has 5 yrs missing. i remember the weird shit. no people. any idea where i can seek answers?
Hi, Malanie.
I’ll respond to this in a blog entry. I don’t have all of the answers, but you and I do have some similarities to our stories. I’ll fill you in on some of my stuff that might help you in answering some of yours. :0)
– Faith
thanks faith. i appreciate any help. its crazymaking n my head. i just posted a dream or nitemare.. or was it a memory? and does it just sound bizairre? not organized or ritualistic? to what level of insanity i lived thru /in is part of what im trying to piece together. i have always had some things i knew for a fact just didnt speak of them. and then now ‘stuff’ that floats thru my mind like craziness. and i lay down to sleep and im dizzy. the room spins. i dont think im sick. i ck my blood pressure it is fine. its odd. / i just dont know what to make of stuff. i do know that my father kept me cooperative with all he did with his own abuse of me in all ways and allowing others to have me and i cooperated.. by 3 things he instilled in me. fear he would kill me like he had our dog. (that is my 1st memory of him..kicking my dog to a lifeless state whether dead really or not..the dog was then “gone”) and the 2nd way was telling me he would hurt my sister if i didnt cooperate and like it. enjoy it. and the 3rd way was later that he would “give” me to our neighbor a man i feared. i thought he was evil. he was by far more scarey with his abuse and manner with me than my father. ///// later he tried and somewhat succeeded in convincing me i “liked’ it all and it was my fault and that noone would ‘believe’ me..it was all too crazy. i remmeber him saying that noone would believe me..that it would sound too crazy. // i dont know. im just so confused. ??/i am very sad for you that you and your sister had to endure such horror and years of remembering. i am proud of you that you have helped so many. you should be proud of yourself. my thoughts and prayers are with you. your last memory was a nitemare. i am so sad for you.
**might trigger**
I really, really don’t know if there were at least elements of ritual abuse to what my father did to me. As far as we know, there wasn’t anybody else. On the other hand, we have an insider who’s a child [don’t know how old] who goes by the name now of Daddy’s Little Defect, after a Sugarcult song–before that, her name was “the hunted,” and evil still clings to her, but is not hers. And the way I talk about her seems almost…antiquated? Like it’s a ‘higher’ way of speaking. And she’s terrified and always hiding from the “hunt,” and we also have another insider named dreamer who’s actually a guardian angel and protects DLD. So confusing!
My father used religion like a bludgeon. We kept getting told at church how if we would just accept Jesus into our heart, our life would be wonderful. So we did…we thought the abuse would stop. It didn’t.
My father also told me [after I tried to tell my mother what was going on–not only did she invalidate me, she told him what I said], that it was such a secret, not even G*d could know. And that if I tried to tell again, he would kill me. He put his hands around my neck.
He also said that if I didn’t behave like a very good girl, d*mons would steal my soul and take me to h*ll. He acted like he could talk to d*mons a few times. I had to be his good little puppet. His good little sl*t. [I was 8-10 at the time.] He played s*x games with me, like saying if he p*netrated me all the way, it would make me unlovable.
It’s just so freaking hard to tell what all he did…I don’t even remember it all…I know it started when I was 4…one of our very little littles [who is only 4] also remembers him doing something with the dog…but that only happened once…
Gah, hate remembering… ='(
I’m sorry Sarah. That makes me so angry, sad, and sick inside! 😦
Heh, I’m being brave and not logging out this time. It’s scary being brave!! O.o
**might trigger**
We’re also having a really hard time right now because we’re discovering another insider. She will go by the name of Devon, but that’s not her name. She won’t tell me her name. I thought she was “just” our SUI/SI alter. Nuh-uh. She’s a lot more than that, and I don’t know why or what exactly. She called me the “secret-keeper.” O.o
Apparently, she’s there to kill us if we are trapped again.
I really, really, really don’t like that.
inmidst this discussion I was wondering if there are like any categories for abuse? I really would like to define my abuse which has been similar to ritual abuse in occurence, intensity and systematics but minus the rituals, sadism and programming. and it was only one person tho mainly because she didnt want to “share” i think. and I feel it is different to single-occurence abuse because I was living in abuse with life only now and then checking in to say hello vs I had a life and then I got abused one time or a certain period of time. and i think the extent of trauma is on a deeper level personality -wise (a mix of several personality-disorders here) which one only gets if abuse occured incessantly and before ones personality had developped.
hmm.. come to think of it I always felt like I was “worshipped” and only ever remember witnessing and all the time wondering when I would finally remember my abuse in addition to the one of my siblings. maybe that was my abuse. Im having an insight as I write, maybe thats why I always been drawn to the ritual abuse without ever having to endure any of that specific abuse.
to clarify* …drawn to the ritual abuse definition in particular…
Hello Faith,
Thanks for this post, and the very interesting thread of comments that follow.
I am not an RA survivor, but my mother was both a sadist and a psychopath (primarily a sadist), and I experienced what I now realize was a form of extreme abuse (abuse where extreme violence &/or humiliation went hand in hand with mind-f*cking, and where they reinforced each other). So, my abuse wasn’t nearly as extreme as what you and your sister (and a good many of your readers) experienced. (And by the way, I send my deepest sympathies to all of you here who experienced that.) But it also seems to be a significant step up from what the vast bulk of therapists are trained for.
I’ve personally never found anyone anywhere who’s been either willing or able to provide me a safe place to even examine my ‘stuff’, let alone work to heal it. Pretty much any healing and growth I’ve had to do on my own, despite having seen literally dozens of different types of therapists, sometimes for years at a time (and having spent all of my reitrement funds doing so with very little positive effect).
And I have some ‘bizarre stuff’ to deal with that I, even after literally decades of therapy, have almost no handle on (although my husband and I have recently been making some slow, painful but significant progress). For instance, I have what I now realize is called “ablutaphobia”: fear of bathing and cleaning. I also have very very few memories available to me to ‘add this up’ &/or connect the dots. I do have memories of my mother repeatedly holding my head underwater at a beach somewhere when I was two or three, and then alternately ridiculing and threatening me for crying and coughing up water, and repeating this until I learned to stop reacting. I couldn’t learn to swim or put my face anywhere near the water for years. But I had an ‘aha’ experience that allowed me to get past that particular phobia, and now I’m a strong swimmer and love the water. But that memory apparently isn’t connected to my fear of baths and showers, which remains extremely difficult to this day. I also had a flashback that my ex-husband said was probably being shocked with a cattle prod when I was an infant (I was wearing baby shoes in the flashback). I have many many similar types of ‘phobias’ (I hate that term, because most of them are extremely logical learned responses from aversive conditioning) that no-one will ever talk about with me, let alone help me to heal: I can’t go near anything if it’s messy: I can’t clean the house, I can’t go near bills or papers, I can’t use a vacuum, I can’t make a meal if the fridge is too full and chaotic or there is food that has gone bad in there, etc… I can do laundry but not if things are piled in the laundry room in a way similar to how my mother did it, etc… Even thinking about those things fills me with a sense of dread, extreme fatigue and mental confusion. And I have literally no idea how or why, and no memories to help me unwind them. The only time I ever get suicidal is either abstractedly thinking about or trying to ‘work through’ them. And yet, until I became ill, I had a very successful career in IT, in a very challenging non-traditional environment, where I was very organized and was a pinch-hitter cleaning up messy projects that others couldn’t begin to touch. I did extreme sports like mogul and heli-skiing, I back-packed through Europe on my own, etc… I love (or rather ‘loved’) to take on challenges and had, if anything, too much courage. But only for things I learned outside the home, away from my mother. But those are the things NO-ONE has ever helped me with or given me a place to talk about.
So I *especially* want to thank Elaine for her initial post re: her ‘reaction’ to one of her clients, and Michael for his first reply. That whole exchange between Elaine and Michael was illuminating. Elaine’s post was entirely validating to me because, in all my years of attempted therapy, no-one (with one minor exception) was ever willing to ‘go there’, and I recognize their reactions were all versions of what Elaine described, followed by varying degrees of what Michael described:
“Most therapists “go away” when I speak of abuse that is not normal as most people do. […]
If a therapist can not go outside of their knowledge/experience/comfort zone they are going to be at best useless to us. We do not communicate and they believe that we do. Typically they inform with information that is incorrect for us. […]
It would have been helpful if many therapists that I dealt with knew when they were in over their head. Typically when that happens a therapist will blame the client or say the client was not ready when it is really the therapist that can not deal.”
I think my own struggles with finding appropriate help were, in large part, because where I am in Canada is so grossly over-informed by this bizarre combination third-wave feminism and Canadian ‘niceness’ to the point that female offenders are completely invisible, and sadism – ‘well *you* must be the one who is crazy or evil if you’re trying to assert that a MOTHER would do that to her child’.
I’m starting my own blog, which is just a rough draft at this point. On it I’ve tried to define ‘severe child abuse’ (the type therapists never seemt to be trained to either admit to or work with) as personality annhilation &/or terrorizing. I’ll need to update that to make specific mention of RA. I’ll send that link to you privately and would love your feedback if you’d care to comment.
So ‘whew’ my sincere apologies for the essay here – I didn’t start out intending to dump all this stuff. Thank you to anyone whose still here with me…
I’ll close with a couple of links here which apply to female sexual offenders, but which I’m sure many RA survivors could relate to (I certainly did):
http://female-offenders.com/Safehouse/2011/03/sexual-assault-awareness-month-please-remember-us.html
http://female-offenders.com/Safehouse/2011/03/flotsam-and-jetsam.html
Hi, birdfeeder.
Yes, please do send me the link. :0)
One thing that struck me in your comment was that so many of your “phobias”/aversions (for lack of a better word) center around doing work around the house, which is typically thought of as “women’s work.” Some mothers who abuse their daughters set their daughters up to be dependent upon them. By creating aversions to being able to be a functional woman in society, she set you up to be dependent upon her for those things.
It sounds like you broke free, which is great! However, many survivors of mother-daughter abuse do not and wind up in a co-dependent relationship because they cannot function well in society, all by their mother’s design.
– Faith
I’m here with you birdfeeder. Thanks for sharing your trauma with us. I’m glad you found Faiths blog! 🙂
I just wanted to write that the concept of RA as a different type of trauma could be limiting much in the same way the sexual abuse is limiting.
Within RA there is both satanic and witchcraft cults. There are cults that are multi-generational that are one family with out connections outside of the family.
There is abuse that is all about profit and that is what the group does.
I am MKULTRA which is different.
Even with in the RA category there are so many different variations and different levels of the cults. Illuminati has not yet been mentioned here. They have jewel, metal and color training and sometimes great distances are traveled.
We are only dealing with the US and England. Surely there are huge differences in different cultures.
You can have an individual who is outside the cult now yet uses the same method. A child of a cult member may be kept outside the cult.
Just as seeing only “normal” abuse can be a danger so can only seeing the other possibility as RA.
All information is helpful. It really is specific to your experiences. It is the allowing for any experience that is the most important.
I met a boy when he and I were 10 and he told me he was abducted by aliens. I told him they made you believe that. I was at a paramilitary camp. He gave me a drawing he did of a pot belly stove they took it from me. I still have the image in my head.
That there is organized abuse, that sometimes the cults members have generations of history and that a person can survive extreme abuse and heal from it ever though it seems impossible is what I think is important.
Jewel and colour used on me…just vague memories…castles…in a part that is not co-conscious with me tonight. Or is just nodding.
Much of my “programing” started pre-verbal. Those memories in a way are more vague and in a way more vivid. They are harder to express.
One think that was done was with toys. Given taken away. Destroyed used for horror cut up and kept in jars. Pretty much if it was seen to bother me than they would do it and keep it up. If I did not show it bothered me they would ratchet it up until it did.
I know much about it as the plan was for me to become a programer. That all stopped for the most part when I was 3 1/2.
confused. remembered (( ?????)))))) ??? ….in a nitemare /dream a house..being in an upstairs bathroom lots of bright yellows. locked doors. car noise on gravel.looking outside window to see my father arrive holding a paper bag up towards my face in window and waving bag and grinning. i can describe the details of the bathroom and what all was outside window and the stairs and the dining room in detail. /my sister was in room next to bathroom i was talking to her thru the door. she was scared. i was dressed in an antique looking white dress thin material too small on me. can feel zipper tho at my back so couldnt be that old. long sleeves too tight and small. i am 10 yrs old. i can hear lots of people. lots of voices. my father and another man unlock the bathroom door and the door leading to my sister.. my sister is forced to watch me being told to do something and cooperating to do it..have it done. torturous pain..( i dont want to say )and i am told to ” tolerate the pain of it” and” to let her know and show her it is ok. even good.” she is fighting. i cooperate. quiet but crying upset over my sisters reaction./she is thrown back into other room. i am done with the current ordeal and shown out of bathroom and taken guided down the stairs with a hand on my shoulder.. to a dining room with a long table, candelabra on center. white cloth tablecloth. lots of people. i am greeted and then ignored. sitting between 2 men. barefeet. shaved legs. naked bottom..pain there. dress too tight. lots of silverware, china plates. candles. that same smell..heavy in air i cant identify. i am given food to eat. all i remember is peice of bloody meat.( i hate bloody meat.) i ate it knew better than not to.in my head.. i imagined myself “away’ from this ordeal. my sister was not allowed downstairs to eat.//// ,,and, i woke up.SO.. was this a dream or a memory??????? and… im still SO confused about all the other stuff i “know” but cant figure out. want to glue together the pieces. help…thanks for listening…
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I am looking for a good SRA therapist in the Highland Park region or pretty close. Any ideas.
On the last comment, Highland Park, CA. Thanks much!