On my blog entry entitled Feeling Better after Talking about Flashback, a reader posted the following comment:
A question Faith: how did you get to a place where you knew your friend could listen to such horrendous things? How do you feel okay about your friend being okay (not being vicariously traumatised)? I ask because I have an offline friend now who says she is willing to listen and really wants to support me, but I feel very unsure about telling her actual details. I think it would help me to be able to tell someone other my therapist, but I don’t want to hurt her or risk damaging our relationship because it gets too much for her. ~ Dawnawakening
I err on the side of taking is slow. I will drop a comment here or there about child abuse and gauge the other person’s reaction. If the person seems to want to talk about child abuse, I’ll talk about it generally and determine the person’s comfort level. Frequently, this turns into me listening to the other person talk about painful childhood memories, whether they were abusive or just painful. (I am a very good listener.)
A friend who really wants to hear about it will give me signs that she is open to hearing more. She might ask me basic questions, frequently beginning with, “If you don’t mind my asking…” I always clarify that I am 100% comfortable talking about my history but that most people cannot handle hearing about it. I will answer the questions asked but stay general, using phrases like, “He did things to me,” versus sharing anything graphic.
Over time (typically a period of weeks or longer), the conversations will circle around again to the topic with the other person making it clear that she wants to know more. If invited to share more, I will begin by asking her to tell me when it becomes too much. I am very clear that my childhood abuse was severe. If she says she is OK to hear more, I will share a little at a time and gauge her reaction. I’ll stop if I see that the person has heard enough.
Also, after I first share a much deeper trauma, I’ll wait to see how she treats me the next time we get together before sharing more. If she treats me the same, I’ll continue as invited. If she pulls away, I know not to go there anymore.
I am very skilled at reading faces, and I also trust my intuition. Most of the time, I can use both of those to help me pace what the other person can handle. Only a very few offline friends have heard my story because it is so intense.
I don’t worry about traumatizing the other person by talking about my history because I let her set the pace. If she doesn’t want to hear about it, then I won’t talk about it with her. If the other person tells me she can handle it, then I trust that she will take care of herself and tell me when she has had enough.
For the most part, I no longer feel the need to share my story offline except for when I recover a new memory as happened last weekend. I will only share my newer memories with one of my two friends who know my full story.
Photo credit: Hekatekris
This is a very useful post; you’re so thoughtful Faith both to think about this and to think of blogging about it.
I’ve had all kinds of experiences telliing friends – I have traumatized them accidentally when I thought they could handle it (e.g. because they are trauma therapists by profession but a personal friend to me) but misjudged their ability to listen without getting very upset; I have told people I was sure would stand by me, only to find myself rejected (before my powers of judgements and setting boundaries developed some). But those that I can talk to about any of my past – and I know they will accept, listen, offer belief and support – are the most precious people in all the world to me.
So I think it’s very much a learning experience. An expert on ritual abuse in the UK once said to me that I deserve to be heard, always and by everyone, and that it’s up to other people whether they are traumatized by listening and not my responsibility, I wouldn’t usually withhold telling them the details of an horrific car accident by worrying about traumatizing them, so why should I worry about telling the details of ritual abuse if I think it will help me. She feels that the taboo on ritual abuse won’t be broken until victims demand to be listened to. I tend to agree, though i would always try to be gentle on others as I care for them, just following basic rules like not telling somebody about trauma – or any of my worries – when they are in a very vulnerable place themself.
The main thing is protecting myself though; telling after so long silent still feels risky so I would now choose people, time and place that will help me and not get me into further trouble by the other person’s overreaction or inappropriate response.
“I deserve to be heard, always and by everyone, and that it’s up to other people whether they are traumatized by listening and not my responsibility”
I agree whole heartedly with this statement, although society condemns child abuse as one of the worst crimes, many people on a personal level dont want to hear about real stories from people they know, its as though they think if it isnt happening to anyone close to them then they are safe but people need to realise that not listening to some one who has been abused and not encouraging them to speak just increases the shame that they feel. The more the subject can be talked openly the quicker a child can come forward and not suffer in silence.
I personally was never abused but had a confusing childhood but a friend of mine was and she came to me and told her story, my heart sank that she had suffered so much pain but I felt so much love for her because she chose to tell me and I’m glad she did. At first I didnt say much because I was a little lost for words but after I felt I should have said more so I wrote a long letter to her which I felt was much easier to articulate myself and give my support, this I found was the best way for me and her to talk openly and bluntly about her abuse and my own issues as I found talking face to face difficult without crying and that would set her off and make her hesitant to tell more. To any one who has told people about their abuse and suffered rejection please please dont give up on others because there are people out there that will stand by you and when they do you’ll have found a friend for life. I have always believed that child abuse sufferers are the pure and innocent ones and the rest of society are the guilty ones for failing them, for not seeing the signs or speaking up for a child that has lost their voice.
I wish I had a 3-d friend that I could really talk to about what happened.
I wish I understood what happened better myself.
I wish I were stronger.
I wish that I could be always sure about what is memory, nightmare, a remembered threat, and/or all these things at once.
I wish that all the ‘physical’ symptoms would stop.
I wish that the torment would stop.
I wish that everyone was free.
Hi Lilo,
What you have said here really spoke to me. I too wish so much for a better understanding and oh, how I wish that I could know for sure the difference between memories and nightmares! The physical symptoms are horrible, I know.
I just wanted to let you know that you’re not alone in feeling this way, that there are others walking through horrific pain with you – other who wish so desperately that we could all be free.
Thoughts,
Me
Thanks, Me. =)
Good thoughts to you!
I have told bits and pieces. I told a few people that I was a multiple. I used to tell people who were accepting over all that they helped and were part of my healing. One that comes to mind that would teach me racquetball left handed and right handed just because I asked.
I do not do this anymore. This is not to say I never will. I have found what typically happens is it becomes one-sided. I end up listening and then they disappear if I speak I become a therapist for the world. . I have found that it can become a reason for anything. Say I do not want to talk about a subject as it bores me. Well I must be triggered. If I am frustrated with a project it must be because I have PTSD. If I want to just go for a paddle and not talk I must be dissociating. If a with intellectually integrity disagree than it is a rant. ect.
And then there are the experts who explain it all to me. This is both online and offline. The result of childhood trauma typically is seen as dissociation so as a multiple I often get left out. I do not have everything I write here changed to what it must be like so that is why I write here.
Part of it for me is the context. One not only has to accept that there are cults and there was a MKULTRA Program they have to accept that the cults supplied traumatized children, subcontracted the trauma and were to be the contacts once the child grew up after having completed the MKULTRA training.
I often get that I should do something about it to make sure they are punished and it stops. I just ask for their actual support and that subject is dropped.
It is not only hard to accept what I experienced it is hard to accept that I survived as intact as I have is hard to accept. Most people can not accept that I can do so many things well.
It was a good thing for me to tell when I did. I do not think that I need to anymore and I do not need the results.
That being said I had the opportunity to go to McLean’s hospital and was heard by some there for a few days at a time and I have my therapist.. Mcllean’s was not a real sharing just they understood my experences and the results were different. Most at Mclean’s did not get it a few understood they did not understand.
My approach was maybe slightly unorthodox. I simply gave four trusted ‘real-life’ friends (plus my partner, though he previously knew some of what happened) the link to my blog.
I warned them that it wasn’t pleasant reading, and told them to be careful. It seems to have worked – they’re informed and aware, but not necessarily too close to the ‘rawness’ of everything, due (I suspect) to my often clinical narrative.
I really don’t fancy actually talking to anyone about it, other than my therapist or, to a lesser extent, my partner (and even then it’s a big struggle). This is probably a sign that I still have a lot of work to do, but for now the arrangement suits me.
A very insightful post as usual, Faith. I’ll heed your advice if and when I come to having these discussions verbally. Thank you.
Most often, I don’t want to talk about it outside of T. In my healing place, I still am concerned that if I talk to people – anyone – about it besides the T (and sometimes even the T) then that is all they will see of me. I do not want them to look at me, and to have visions of what occurred to me because I have shared anything with them.
Logic tells me this won’t happen. I participated in a Survivor’s Group (we did Courage to Heal book) and I participate in a DID Group (trauma not discussed) and I do not “see” the abuse on other participants; but, I haven’t (can’t?) make that leap of faith/trust to think that people won’t see it on me.
However, there is one person who has been in both of those groups who continually asks to hear details. She wants to know specifically why I am triggered by dogs or why I don’t like to have my picture taken. I have told her that I am not comfortable sharing, and she will approach it another way, or will opine to me that “sharing will make it better.” It really, really bothers me that she asks to hear – but, it is good practice for me at maintaining a boundary.
wtr
Wantstorun
I had to cut off from a friend who always wanted to know the details of my abuse, it was intrusive and therefore, in a way, abusive. Sorry you are placed in that situation too.
A x,
Thank you for your response! I’ve often felt very mixed about this person, kind of like I ‘had’ to be on friendly terms with them because we were in group together, etc. But you are right, the repeated requests are intrusive and make me feel unsafe. Ahhhh, I feel such relief reading your reply, thank you!
wtr
I have a similar strategy. I broach the topic, usually in response to a question about my parents. I say something like “I don’t see my parents”. If the response to this is okay, I may add that I had abusive parents. Eventually, I let them know the abuse was severe enough to involve the police. I learned a couple of years ago that I have scars on my vulva from the rapes, so disclosing that fact seems to head off the stupid “parents do the best they can”, “you should forgive them” or similar comments that are out of scope with what actually happened to me. I frame this discussion in a lot of euphemisms, but the facts are clear.
I’ve learned recently that it’s actually a good thing to give people enough detail that they get the scope of it. By being vague and protecting them from the details, they don’t have the information they need to see me accurately. I’m not ashamed of what happened to me, and I’m proud of how I’ve handled it. I wrote a song about the scars on my vulva, and sang it at a women’s retreat. This got the disclosure out of the way at once, and had a lot of benefits. A lot of women said that things about the way I am in the world made a lot more sense to them once they knew. Sometimes I seem rigid or intense, and if they don’t know why, it’s easy to judge. Just saying “my parents were abusive” can feed into the minimization most non-survivors use for dealing with the idea of child abuse by a parent.
Not that I think everyone needs to know, for sure, but selectively, I’m coming to realize that, now that I’m ready and healed enough to be doing well in my life, it’s a good thing to let people know, frankly and with enough detail, that these things happen, and happened to me, and that I’m okay now.
Thank you, I was wondering about this too.
I used to have friends that were okay talking about their abuses, but it was very one sided. One of them actually told me that it was against the rules for me to need her support. I no longer have these people in my life, and for the better.
But I do wish I had people I could be more open with. One friend got so triggered by the little bit I shared with her that she couldn’t talk to me for months. At least she was able to let me know what happened, but it still hurt.
Another friend goes into crisis fix it mode, which triggers me. I tell her very generally how I’m feeling. Usually just my mood without explanation of why.
This all came to a head last week when my therapist was out of town and I got into a very bad place. I couldn’t call her back up therapist, but at least now I know why. I got bits of a memory about my father beating me with the phone I used to call a stranger for help.
So there you have it…I can’t ask strangers for help and my friends aren’t capable of providing it. Rock and a hard place. My therapist and I are going to have to come up with a better plan next time she’s out of town, because I wasn’t sure I was going make it through this one.
We knew one person who seemed to want to know more, she’d ask us loads of questions, often more than we were happy sharing, but we did anyway – gotta learn more about those boundary things. Anyway, one day she suddenly got mad at us, walked off and later sent us an email saying we were too hard work and never wanted to see us again. Although we’d spent way more time talking about her boyfriend troubles than anything related to us, and she’d never mentioned a problem before. Figure we triggered her, though she never said that. Finally responded to one of our emails saying she didn’t feel she could support us (we’d never asked her to), and that only family can give that kind of support – thanks, after we just told you how abusive ours is. Apologies for the sarcasm.
Only other person we’ve told anything too was abusive of us and used what we’d told him against us. Couple of other people know we have DID, a few others PTSD, but details, near zero. Not sure we’ll find the trust to tell anyone again, but you never know.
Thanks, interesting topic.
So sorry, Bay. I had the exact same experience with a friend, down to the final kick in the teeth reference to families being the most supportive place to go for in trouble.
I think a light went on. I think of telling as processing. There may come a time where I need to explain why I dropped off the map for 7 years.
Thanks so much for this post and for all of these comments- helps so much to put my own experience with telling and not telling into perspective. I have felt for a long time that it would be good for me to have someone to talk about this, but was hesitant… Your comments have given me some idea of what to expect and what to watch out for, and some reassurance that my sense of caution was justified.
Thanks for answering my question Faith. The comments are very helpful too. I have already gone through several of the testing stages with my offline friend and I trust that she really does feel able to hear more. I will take your advice to check in with how she handles details and take it slowly.
Sworddancewarrior’s comment gave me some new ideas, especially this part: “I’ve learned recently that it’s actually a good thing to give people enough detail that they get the scope of it. By being vague and protecting them from the details, they don’t have the information they need to see me accurately.” I think that, in time, I will use this with other friends who I have been very vague with. I feel more confident lately that friends will believe me and not be judgemental, but it’s still very hard to risk taking that step.
Thanks for a great post,
Dawn
Just to throw my tow-cents in, I tried telling one friend and it was a huge mistake. Unfornately this person has some of the characterisitcs of my mother (not my sexual abuser but my physical one) and she said she didn’t understand why people didn’t just brush stuff like sexual abuse off and move on. It really messed with my head for a while and our friendship was damaged even though she remains oblivious to it.
I learned that I can’t tell anybody but, I’m really glad to hear that it works fo some people, especially someone like Dawn who I know online 🙂
I struggle with needing to be seen and understood, while simultaneously wanting complete privacy, because the more information I keep to myself and the more I withhold myself from other people, the more power it feels like I have (and it feels safer). But then I get an unbearable urge to spill everything and every little detail to everyone because why should I have to hide who I am and what I’ve been through?
So, it’s a tough thing. I almost emailed my sister telling her everything and then decided not to at the last minute. I’m glad I didn’t because the timing isn’t right.
I don’t want to be hidden forever. I feel lately that I will share details if there’s an emotion attached, so that the person can understand me (it is so frustrating to not be seen and known!), and then only if that particular person has already earned my trust. If they haven’t, they won’t really get anything from me in the first place. I’m highly selective about sharing.
Right now this is a big issue for me…to tell or not to tell. Struggling so hard to be “real” and seen by others. My whole life has been a lie. I want to be honest and expressive with others. I will trust my intuition on who can handle me being honest.